Fame at last!
Well maybe not fame, but a bit of attention. Rob Waugh got in touch with me last week and asked a few questions, next thing thoughts from my book appear in the Mail!
There are a few mistakes in it which I’m sure some of you will notice unfortunately. The journalist said he will change them when he is able to access it again…can’t ask for more than that
Anyway, I am putting this in the general news section and I want to steer clear of the religious implications, but I do want to revisit this topic as I believe it is incredibly important. We need to understand just how real and just how prevalent these experiences are so that we can determine if we should take them seriously and do more to help others avoid this fate. Obviously my faith does influence my stance on this, but I do not want to bring that into this discussion, just focus on the evidence we have from research and individual accounts.
Firstly, Parnia’s consensus statement said that negative NDEs weren’t REDs (or authentic NDEs) but episodes of consciousness during CPR, however the very paper he used to justify that, a paper by Cassol published in Memory in 2019, said the opposite…that they were identical to positive NDEs except for leaving the experiencer with a negative rather than a positive feeling. The first question I would love to hear from you on is whether you think these are authentic NDEs, and if they aren’t, what evidence do you have to support that position? Or if you feel they are, likewise.
Secondly the article highlights only one of the potential theories explaining why only 10% have NDEs…namely that due to dissociative amnesia it is possible that many more people have these negative experiences than is currently the case. I do state that this is only one possible explanation rather than THE explanation as the article implies, but obviously to attract attention the story focuses on this one and not on the less interesting ones. I can live with that even if it’s a bit of a distortion of what I say. What are your thoughts on this?
Are you aware of Jugen Ziewe’s work and writings about his journeys out of the body to what traditionally have been called the astral planes. In these accounts he describes visiting the lower astral levels which are one explanation for hell-like NDEs. I recommend him highly. Also the work of Robert Monroe and the Monroe Institute
Hi Michael, thanks for contributing and welcome. I think I have come across them. To be honest I tend to focus on the immediate data coming out of NDEs and their implications rather than peripheral stuff. For every book written by someone from the New Age movement about their ideas, with various evidence, there is a book written by Christians claiming something different with different evidence. For me, as I explain in my book, did Jesus die for nothing, I believe this variation in observations is related to free will.
To pessimistic Orson. Out of my league. Paul
The article does only focus on the negative aspect of what I say. However, understanding that there is a potential negative outcome is extremely important. Quantifying it in terms of how many go is equally important. Understanding why they might end up there is important. Most importantly determining ways of living that increase the likelihood of avoiding this outcome is important.
However, before you treat the disease, you need to understand it and diagnose it and that is all I am doing.
OK ~ I’ll run a little with that.
Maybe?
Paul
Blind optimism is dangerous, even fatal…as is continual pessimism. I am an optimist regarding my own eternal future…some would say that is arrogant, but I just believe a promise made to me. I am somewhat optimistic of the eternal futures of those who live in a way that is in line with what the “Being Of Light” aka God says. The rest? Those who just live for themselves and their immediate family? Those who never seek knowledge or truth? There is reason from the evidence from NDEs and all the world religions to be pessimistic about their eternal futures…whether it is just “death of the soul” as I propose in my book, or some form of torment (just to be clear I don’t believe in eternal torment at all) that is a consequence of ignoring all the opportunities to engage with truth and light, I don’t know for sure, which is why I believe it is important to consider these negative experiences. Are they real? How widespread are these experiences? What is the cause? What are the solutions?
As a medical scientist I spend my life focusing on disease, understanding disease – diagnosing it, how prevalent it is, how it is caused, what are the outcomes – then being a part of finding solutions to those diseases – from basic science research to clinical trials, then regulatory approval and then spreading the news about the solutions that are proven to work. That is literally my career in the pharmaceutical industry in a nutshell.
I come across pessimists about Alzheimer’s disease. It is a terrible disease, and I am able to describe how to diagnose it, when it starts (20 years before you see symptoms), how it progresses, what it does, and the fatality rate (100%). If I just looked at that and didn’t believe the research on treatments, then I would be a pessimist, but I know that there are treatments already available that slow the progress of the underlying disease, and in some cases even stop it completely. there are others who refuse to believe the data. I also believe that if you treat early you will stop it ever progressing. I believe that the future of Alzheimer’s is positive…I am an optimist.
I am an optimist regarding medicine because I worked in HIV for 15 years. When I started out on bench chemistry trying to create treatments, the fatality rate if you caught HIV was nearly 100%, but if you are diagnosed now before symptoms develop through early testing, then due to effective therapies, you can live a normal life and die in your old age of another disease. That is amazing! I believe the same ill happen for Alzheimer’s.
Spiritual pathologies leading to negative NDEs are no different, except the consequences of “spiritual” diseases are for more grave than mere physical ailments. I believe it is all real, but I believe there are solutions that work and that ensure eternal life in a heavenly realm as so many NDEs describe. I want everyone to experience the latter, but I don’t believe that will happen by pretending that is what is guaranteed for everyone regardless of how you behave when the evidence contradicts that.
That is why we need the conservation, even if it is uncomfortable.
No ~ it’s not uncomfortable. Just does not sit well with me. It’s late and I’m sleepy. When/if I have the time, Orson, I’ll get right stuck in.
Paul
I heard some people argue (I think it was Parnia and Grayson) that drugs being administered could be part of the reason why more people don’t remember these experiences. I think Holden said that people have experimented with hypnosis for trying to recall such lost memories.
I have heard that too, but it just doesn’t explain the huge difference between kids and the elderly.
I feel that dissociative amnesia may not be a good explanation. I recall a story from a patient who claimed to not remember an NDE however those involved in his resuscitation remember agitation and anger from the patient for being brought back to life. Yet the patient later had no memories of the event although he felt a sort of longing for which he could not explain. Hence the person seems to have had a positive feeling, not a hellish one. However one might argue that the resuscitation itself which many describe as a horrible traumatic experience (worse than death itself) may lead to this type of amnesia. I don’t know.
I died at 2 years old and I feel I’ve been affected by a possible near death experience. But I have no memories of the event.
The otherworldly NDE comes after the typical veridical medical-type NDE OBE (where one recalls visual imagery from the time period around ones resuscitation).
So it seems the otherworldly NDE originates from a physiological state further into recovery.
In anycase, I’ve never agreed that the otherworldly NDE is a literal view of an afterlife. I feel for the poor sods who through no fault of their own have a repelling experience and get told the opposite. And there has always been far too much correlation with the experient, the experients immediate environment, and the narrative of the otherworldly NDE.
But there their still may be some degree of anomalous information incorporated within the otherworldly NDE, but not with the same level of veridical accuracy as the earlier OBE (if it occurs).
DMT perhaps present further into recovery, may play some role with the otherworldly NDE too.
Currently I’m going with the OBE as the lowest state of brain energy/firing with anomalous recall, and the otherworldly NDE as has having a higher state of brain energy/firing that may incorporate some anomalous recall with some sensory/network processing.
Both provide a clue about the true nature of Experience, but the veridical OBE seems cleaner.