AWARE III, IV, V…I’ve lost count.
On July 13th one of the readers of this blog will be having an operation in which their heart is temporarily stopped before surgery is conducted. This reader has asked me to suggest how she might think in advance how, in the event she has an OBE, she could prove the OBE.
Firstly, I’m sure all the readers of this blog will join me in wishing her a successful outcome of this operation and a speedy recovery.
Secondly, it should be noted that most people who “die” whether it be due to a natural CA or a medically induced CA, do not have OBEs. Maybe as low as 3% of people recall being able to observe their bodies or the room they are lying in. Therefore it is very unlikely that the sole subject of AWARE X will have anything to report. However, in the event that she does have an OBE, please could the regulars think of some way she could devise to prove it if its occurs.
My “starter for ten” is that she would need to collaborate with the surgical team and ask them to put some object in the room after she is unconscious. If the surgeon is skeptical of these kinds of reports he may not be interested, but if he has had previous patients report such experiences, he may be willing to take part.
Comments very welcome please!
It seems to me that you should ask for four shelves to be placed, one in each corner of the operating room…as Parnia did in Aware I, but with the difference that in this case it would not be one (1) but four (4).
Only visible from the ceiling, obviously.
And then have them place four drawings or numbers composed of 3, 4 or 5 digits that he (the patient) does not know, does not know what they are.
If he has an OBE and he gets it right, he will not only get the number right but also the corner, where he saw it.
Of course, the advantage he would have over Aware patients is that he would know beforehand that he was looking for confirmation of the OBE…, which Aware patients did not, but this would not invalidate the results.
To suggest this I base myself on the observation that Dr. J. Long made in his book, when he pointed out that the center of consciousness in an OBE, after rising from the body, at least at the beginning, usually does not rise above the ceiling and usually takes up positions in some corner of the room. The case of the 57-year-old Aware man also had his perception from a corner, as he later indicated to Parnia…I do not speak English, I understand that corner refers to corner in the English language.
As I have never had such experiences I can’t really offer any good insight on the theoretical nature of these experiences. HOWEVER, there are two things I will say.
1. Good luck on the surgery and wish the best
2. Everyone is making excellent suggestions on how to test it, but don’t get too caught up on the surroundings, instead just focus on the moment and observe what’s going on. If you see a target great, hear conversations great, but the important thing to remember is to stay focused and try not to panick or worry but be mindful of what’s happening. This way by being in a mindful mindset you will be able to obtain any information more clearly without having to worry with this in mind. Very similar to meditation and practicing mindfulness by focusing on the breathe or awareness. By being present in the moment , it can reduce the mental stress and allow for better focus within an experience. Hope this helps!
I concur on all the above. On hearing it seeing write it down and get to go all the medical people to timeline it. You may not because anesthesia and I am sure they will keep blood flow to brain.
Also they never tell the patient about operating room details on almost snything. I would argue if you present them with anything heard of seen you have a hit.
Good luck. Would also ask about the covid protocols too.
During an operation there is a lot that is recorded, particularly the anesthesiologist. Very few people know how anesthesia looks or the data he is looking at. This book is opened every so often and anesthesiologists usually just relax in the room occasionally doing something. It would be worth to look for what the anesthesiologist is doing instead of trying to go after the whole room. Say if he is reading a book or if he is writing to someone or watching some sort of video. Maybe he has students and their questions.
As people are saying focus only on something minor, a moment in time. But we must be aware that in this case the patient will probably have blood circulated outside the body via a machine and that will go to the brain so this is not death rather the heart is being replaced by a machine. The idea is to prevent the brain from flatlining as it is harder to return function to the brain even when the heart is beating. If they can avoid the risk they will avoid the risk.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I don’t know where in the world this patient is having her operation, but I would think it was very unlikely that a surgeon (or a surgical team) would agree to something like that. But I guess there’s no harm in asking, at least.
In the unlikely event that they do agree to it, I would present the surgeon with a large sheet of white paper and a black marker pen and ask him to write a 3 digit number on it as large as possible, and place it somewhere viewable, after you are anaesthetised. Maybe on a table (away from the operation site) or on top of the lights.
You could actually use more than one piece of paper with the same number on it, if the surgeon was really easy going but I’d be very surprised even if he/she agreed to any of it in the first place. They usually need agreement from the ethics committee for anything like this.
More seriously, best of luck with the operation, I hope everything goes well !
LikeLiked by 1 person
Potentially taking this suggestion a step further – provide the surgeon with a set of assorted brightly coloured sheets of card (which could act as a visual cue for the patient). The surgeon then chooses a coloured card at random and writes the three digit number on it. This way, if an OBE did occur, the patient would identify the colour of the card (which would not have been known) and the randomly chosen three digit number. Best of luck with the operation!
Best wishes for your surgery.
I dont know for sure but I’ve heard images work better than numbers. I think Parnia uses images. I wonder if asking Parnia would be helpful.
Best of luck with the operation and get well soon and that is the main thing now.
Some great suggestions. I would add that if this lady gets the chance, ask the surgeon if anyone undergoing the procedure before has reported OBEs…if they have, this might open the door to potentially validating. I will send a personal email anyway.
This may be of interest to some on the blog.
They found that ‘ hearing’ is the last sense to go away before dying but I believe it’s before they actually flatline not during. What do you guys make of this?
The difficulty of this is that you’d be able to prove to yourself you had an OBE far easier than you could prove it unequivocally to everyone else.
Well he’s certainly not messing about, is he. I never thought he would get this project up and running so quickly ! Well done, Dr Parnia !
Some of the comments underneath are amusing too. “Please tell us..is there life after death ?” LOL ! That’s patience for you !
LikeLiked by 1 person
Very interesting. I think this has great potential, depending how fast they are able to recruit.
Hello Ben, what does recruit mean that you have someone who can remember something, or someone gives the consent that you can do tests on him during the operation?
Hello Ben. If she is comfortable, perhaps you could connect your reader who is undergoing the operation with Dr. Parnia.
Maybe look for the barcode/manufacture date on some equipment. I doubt the surgeon will cooperate. Should always go for a very specific visual veridical perception imo.
I wish you luck tomorrow. As for a potential OBE, I’d suggest asking the team to place a random object (preferably from the room next door so as to have not seen it previously) at the foot of the door. All this would happen after you’ve been under, and so you wouldn’t know what to expect. Of course the object has to be large enough and distinct enough to spot. But… if an OBE occurs, just sight for it. Should be easy to find and it isn’t too much to ask, either.
Again, best of luck.
Thank you for your suggestions!
Today I should be operatie upon, but emergencycases were there( hartattacks etc.) and they asked me for postponemoment.
The intention is the operate me this week, because my surgeon his holidays ( 3 weeks) start next week.
I will take your suggestions with me.
I also talked to a cardiologist in the Netherlands P. van Lommel who wrote a book about nde’s.
You will hear from me after the operation, nde or not 😉
Thank you all very much!
LikeLiked by 2 people
Must be frustrating being delayed Monique. Hope they fit you in before he goes away. Like I said in my email, maybe worth asking him if he’s ever had a patient report an OBE. If he has, he may be willing to do some sort of test. Otherwise I think the idea of looking at specific members of staff, or even something outside the room…if you have an OBE and if you have the “presence of mind to do such a thing”.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks for the update Monique! We look forward to hearing from you after your operation.
I’d like to repeat my suggestion that it could be helpful to contact Parnia.
This friday I had my operation. No near death experience guys 👐 Just a black hole.
Nevertheless there is something that is aware of that too! That is known too by something empty….not being the ego with preconditioned thinking.
It reminds me of Nisargadatta Maharaj who said :
Wisdom is knowing I am nothing,
Love is knowing I am everything,
and between the two my life moves.
I want to thank you all for your well wishes and advices.
When I hear more about nde’s in this hospital I will let you know ok?!
Monique from the Netherlands
Glad that everything went well Monique, but shame you didn’t have an OBE, would have been very exciting! Hard to draw any philosophical conclusions, just like with my operation last year.
A feeling of nothing is not nothing? Glad it went well. It is also a big pain to need medical care in the covid era and mine is nothing compared to yoy.
Glad to hear it went good as well!
I’m very glad it went well! And thank you for sharing your experience. I would love to hear more about your experience if you feel comfortable. Curious if you were aware during the procedure or if it was more a recollection when you woke up? Either is amazing and fascinating!
…curious also about what you mean by a “black hole”…do you mean a feeling like being in space or do you mean no time passing?
I mean the presence that there was nothing.
What registers this? What registers there was no-thing, no-time, no-place? Consciousness (always ‘on’)
Would you like to experience it yoursef without operation ? 😉
Each morning when you awake there is a split second befor the mind (an instrument) starts showing up with (condiotioned) thoughts about the coming day. In this split second there is a nothingness. You are aware that you are aware. There is nothing in it. It is pure consciousness knowing itself (befor all forms in it arise) .
Discovering THAT has made a huge impact in my life.
The body will die. Consciousness will not 😃
Thanks so much for your reply, Monique. I must have missed seeing it earlier.
I love your description, its quite beautiful and really goes to the heart of the matter. Consciousness truly is the real mystery and source of life. Your message is inspiring me to start meditation again as I would love to experience what you describe. If you have any meditation suggestions please feel free to share : )
Thanks again and take care!
Hi everyone. I am new to these issues, and I always wonder: If near-death experiences are genuine proof of the afterlife, why do such a low percentage of people in clinical death experience them? Why can some people remember and others not?
No one knows for sure what exactly goes on in an NDE but it has been recommended by experts that everyone has these experiences but can’t remember due to their brain state after cardiac arrest and the drugs that might be given to them. Memory is very susceptible and easily messed with, just look at people who have brain disorders and can’t remember. Plus we don’t always remember dreams but they still happen nonetheless. If I were to recommend some experts look at Sam Parnia or Pim Van Lommel and see what they say about it.
Thanks for the info. The whole topic of near-death experiences is very interesting. I think consciousness remains, at least in the first few minutes and perhaps hours after clinical death, then it is very difficult to know. What is interesting are the constant patterns that occur in many experimenters, with some subjective differences that I think depend more on brain activity, even if it is minimal, such as when someone sees God, others Allah, etc, etc.
Juan I think of you study peak in Darien ndes you will see that they point to consciousness being immortal , especially if you read accounts like Eddie Cuomo seeing his sister in heaven as well as his other relatives .
Hi bippy123, something like the peak in Darien recently happened in my family with a deceased loved one. Only it didn’t happen in an episode of near-death experience or visions on the deathbed, but in too vivid a dream.
Juan is it possible for you to describe this peak in Darien vision ? If it’s too personal I’d understand .
I’ve always been extremely interested in these types of experiences that bring back verifiable info n this way .
No problem bippy, and sorry that my English is not very good. It happened in my family recently, is that with the passing of my loved one, my brother had an overly vivid dream about him entering his room. My brother doesn’t usually dream of anyone. The next day we were informed that around the time my brother had that dream, my loved one had unfortunately passed away. Chance? It may be, but I want to believe not
Juan what are the chances of this being a coincidence ?
Wow I love reading stories like this .
Wish I could have had one about my dad before he passed .
Thanks again Juan and sorry about the delay in replying .
Being homeless and living in my car means time passes differently for me .
Thanks again 🙂
My opinion is 50-50 on this matter. I wish it were real because there would be hope of reuniting with my loved one, but I believe that most of these dream experiences as well as near death experiences are brain activity or just lies. But there is always a little hope that there is something beyond
Hi Orson and all, I just saw this new book by Prof. Bruce Greyson, out 2021. Prof. Parnia gives an interesting review with lots of others. Seems pretty obvious to me which way this all points.
LikeLiked by 1 person
That is a very interesting find. What is more interesting is that the launch is planned for March 2021, and yet it has already been reviewed by multiple very big names in the NDE field (basically all of them). This is highly significant in my view and may signal that something big is coming on the research front and this is their “consensus statement” led by one of the founding father’s of NDE writing and research. I’m guessing that the book could be ready to go now, but they are waiting till the formal presentation or publication of research that scientifically supports this position. Thank you posting this Alan.
Sure and best to you! I sometimes check out Jim Tucker’s Facebook (not often updated) then onto DOPS, University of Virginia and that’s how I spotted it. Fascinating take on it you give, I was really surprised how many “big guns” reviewed it. Esp. I must say Andrew Newberg who always, it seems to me, has been on the fence wrt consciousness and spirituality. So I wonder if he particularly has shifted. Regards!
On your other topic Orson If life forms so easily that is a big mystery because like you I sure don’t see how. ….But Earth Venus Mars could be same origen.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Something I keep thinking of, how an NDE resembles stuff seen normally. Yet the brain is the *last* thing to form what we see normally – after so much ado, photons hit the retina, electricity in the optic nerve, the magic of the brain image (maybe more I’ve left out). And a photometer test inside the brain shows it’s quite dark in there.
But an NDE doesn’t need the first two steps – but the imagery is similar, verified operating room doctors, verified medical procedures, verified Dr. Lloyd Rudy’s “post-it notes”! As if vision relying on the first two steps is operating. But, but … ?!
I know it’s a kind of crazy equivalence but this deep problem reminds me of Leonard Cohen’s song “Anthem” – “There is a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in”.
So he explains his song, “This situation does not admit of solution or perfection. This is not the place where you make things perfect, neither in your marriage, nor in your work, nor anything, nor your love of God, nor your love of family or country. The thing is imperfect. And worse, there is a crack in everything that you can put together, physical objects, mental objects, constructions of any kind. But that’s where the light gets in, and that’s where the resurrection is and that’s where the return, that’s where the repentance is. It is with the confrontation, with the brokenness of things.”
So does the light get in for an NDE, how is it real (if really an indication of another reality resembling our “vision reality”?) What is this light that get in?
Somehow consciousness enables the crack to let stuff in, an indicator of something immortal? I like the idea of our imperfection allowing things to enter. To heal?
I love Leonard Cohen. Great artist.
Me too, though only recently discovered. As to the “light” needed, only time and science may tell I guess. It just seems so self contradictory yet people’s experiences cannot be denied.
Any updates on AWARE II? I’m assuming things have been postponed due to the COVID-19 virus
He can’t possibly have anywhere near enough data, yet, because he didn’t have (anywhere near) enough when we discussed it previously. And as you say, Covid must have affected the (data) collection.
I don’t think we’ll see any results for at least another year, even though this stage of Aware was supposed to end in 2020. Then again, he might just wrap this one up and begin Aware three, who knows, not me.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I agree, the study is still open. I am going to post an update on where I think things are soon. I have finished the next draft of my book on the subject, so have a bit of time to write a quick post, but not much to say really. I wonder if he will have a poster at AHA this year.
Thanks, Ben ! No, I don’t suppose there is much to say really; we’ve just got to be patient and wait. Even if he doesn’t have any hits (which he won’t have with numbers like that @4 NDE’s) he must have useful SOME data to move this forward scientifically, surely.
Leaving aside my own view, I take heart that one day at least (in 5 years or 10-15 years?), this question should finally be answered and we can drop it and move on. Or not, as the case may be.
LikeLiked by 1 person