AwareofAware

Evolving news on the science, writing and thinking about Near Death Experiences (NDEs)

Brand New Findings Revealed?

Thanks to Eduardo for picking this one up. I am extremely busy at the moment so don’t always have the time to trawl the networks for anything Parnia or NDE related, so appreciate when others email me links or post them in discussions. I felt this was worth pulling out. It was aired earlier this week on Dr Oz on January 22nd 2018. Dr Oz opens the segment with the announcement that brand new findings are going to be revealed (in the show). He then introduces Dr Parnia…well have a look yourself, click on the picture of our favorite intensive care doctor to access the video:

Parnia

Is this a sleight of hand or is there actually new data, or “brand new findings”?

Dr Parnia on one hand seems to describe the design of the most recent iteration of AWARE, AWARE II, then slips in “we did a study…” talking about the results from AWARE I. Given that he categorically stated in emails and on his Twitter feed that the results from AWARE II won’t be made public until after the study is finished in 2020, and that at this stage they have only recruited 350 or so, one can only assume that he is referring to AWARE I. However, the confidence he has in the assertions he makes seem to be growing stronger, which makes me believe that AWARE II has got some verified hits. AWARE I did not have any properly confirmed OBEs (i.e. validated sightings of pictures). There were some interesting accounts, and without doubt some real NDEs, and OBEs, but without the visual confirmation, they are nothing more than has been reported from countless other studies or independent accounts.

I do wonder why he is doing this. Is it to plug his book (Dr Oz does that at the end of the segment)? On some days he seems keen to protect the integrity of the study by not disclosing any preliminary results, but on others he does this kind of stuff. I guess there’s nothing specifically wrong with it, but from my perspective as a scientist, I do find the hyperbole attached to this format of show to be distracting and potentially tainting the credibility of the research, especially when the headlines do not match the reality. From what I can see there are no new major findings presented in this show.

As I say above, I can only assume that he is so confident now in producing paradigm shifting results, that he knows that in the long term, this will not cause any damage.

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70 thoughts on “Brand New Findings Revealed?

  1. I thought exactly I mean exactly what you said Ben. The case for A1 is he could have been talking about the auditory hit. I think its psychological bias because ears are open and eyes are not……so maybe he was convinced by A-1…….but then he is very confident and tosses in a reference to the the visuals.He exuded the same confidence in other recent comments…..including the consciousness field…..I lean that there have been some hits. Anyway I regulary check google scholar which is where I got tge last link. And thanks to Eduardo. Sorry I took so long before giving you a summary of the above video. All I can say is he may have book and TV but so do a lot of others and he is no ancient astronaut cable tv theorist.

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  2. Dr Oz has faced criticism for his support of some alternative medicine though in contrast Parnia just stumbled into this when pushing the limits of resuscitation. I wonder if he has found the limit yet.

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  3. Perhaps they are calling new findings for those that for the first time become aware of these studies or even what it is NDE.
    I would not assume that all this news are only addressed to the scientific community

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  4. Hi Ben. Did you say a new book from Sam parnia?

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  5. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    frankly I find it hard to believe that dr. Sam Parnia is exposed to such sensationalist media without having enough “evidence” to support his hypothesis. It would clearly put your professional prestige at risk …

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  6. Sorry misread it. It the 2014 book

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  7. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    He said earlier that he could put his professional prestige at risk. Do not forget that, leaving aside for a moment the issue of NDEs, the existence of the mistress etc., Parnía is considered a “great resuscitator” because with his method of hypothermia and other techniques significantly increased resuscitation rates successfully in several hospitals in the United States and Great Britain ….. Consequently exposing himself to sensationalist means would risk his professional prestige, if he does not have enough evidence to support his hypothesis.

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    • Great points Eduardo. He is a highly respected researcher in the field of resuscitation medicine in his own right, the NDE aspect is a “side effect” of his work if you like, but obviously the one that receives the most attention.

      Again, to your point about confidence, there are 15 hospitals partaking in this study, all keen to preserve their credibility and integrity. I suspect that principle investigators in each of these instutions from the study, have been made aware of ongoing results in investigator meetings, and possibly share in his confidence, otherwise they might be less keen to be assocaited with him or with the study.

      I do wonder if he can keep a lid on any positive hits for another two years though. In some ways he is already out there inferring he has hits by doing what he is. This gets the sceptics asking him to show them “the money”, and hey presto, in 2020 he does. Why else would he behave in this way? Also, I am changing my position as we also every right to speculate as this can only be designed to fuel speculation.

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  8. No deviation from the mind being a separate undiscovered scientific entity, which goes back over many years (inc. in Dr. Parnia’s Erasing Death book) he talks of this particular concept. Easy to find Google references over the years to this. Promising!

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  9. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    According to Dr. Van Lommel, another important researcher of the NDEs there is what is called “blindness for lack of attention”. This means that only when we have the intention to decide where to place the attention will we consciously perceive the event or object on which we focus. There are studies done about this “blindness for lack of attention” and they show that people in general do not report having noticed an UNEXPECTED object. All this makes me think how difficult, although not impossible, it is to validate Parnia as out-of-body experiences, but I recognize that, using the scientific method, it is the only way that “would shape the skeptics.”
    This article is interesting to Pim Van Lommel. http://www.extremamente.it/2017/04/06/pim-van-lommella-coscienza-sopravvive-alla-morte/

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  10. Its amazing that perception after death looks like well life. Parnis controls are impressive.I would add what Parnia found about post cardiac brain swelling makes this more amazing. The other take I had from Aware 1 was hit made the case for the DNR more than resusitation to me.

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    • This is an interesting point. Are we interferring with “fate” or “God’s will” or “the universe’s will” by bringing people back. Obviously, given that many of these people say that they have met someone who told them it wasn’t their time, suggests otherwise, but then they would say that as presumably they know! It’ a philosophical can of worms!

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  11. Oh that is an intersting point Ben but I was thinking more pragmatically that most revived people were still in pretty bad shape and most ended up dying shortly thereafter …That said if its some sort if field interacting with brains then I dont see a big philosophical problem.

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  12. Samwise on said:

    Did anyone hear Dr.Parnia on this radio show?

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  13. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    Thanks Samwise! how good would it be to be able to find where you can hear it!

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  14. I see you posted Eduardo. This was just yesrerday. It looks like its run by NYC Langone. The facebook page says its on Sirius xm which isva US satellite subscription radi program.

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  15. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    Thanks David

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  16. He must have something. He sure acts like a person just dying ..pun intended….to tell something…but just cant yet….

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    • Yep, my thinking exactly. If he’s sitting on multiple hits, there is no way he will be able to stay quiet about it for 2-3 years. At some point, if the weight of evidence reaches a tipping point…say 3 or more rock solid visually confirmed OBEs, with cast iron evidence, from more than one institution, then I personally believe that he has an ethical duty to present an “unplanned interim analysis” as we call it in the business.

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      • If he found somethjng livesaving he sure would but this is more comforting if the end is near at least in this form so he can probably get away with tormenting us here some more.

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  17. Is there a listen back option on this. Unable to find it?

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  18. Pity. I asked a person on Facebook who commented if they coukd do a summary

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  19. Life is 80-100 years maybe, but your soul is eternal…knowing you have one, and being concerned about insuring its survival, is infinitely more important than adding a year or so to your life.

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    • I am Jewish our focus is the world we have . Yes its a long time being in Sheol but our job is to improve this world because we really have no power over the next.

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      • Different religions obviously have a different take on the impact of your behaviour here on your afterlife. Most suggest consequences, which, if true, makes this research potentially much more important than regular medical research. As my prophet says, what good is it if you gain the whole world and yet forfeit your very soul. This research, if successful proves the existence of a soul, therefore looking after the health of that entity becomes the paramount goal. Having said that, prior to the modern era, most people believed in the soul and God, and yet they still behaved terribly, so maybe it won’t make that much difference!

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  20. I dont think it will make any difference because humans can find infjnite ways to rationalize their creulty so they will never see themselves in trouble..

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  21. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology. Wikipedia gives past and present diverse views and they are diverse from none to reincarnation you name it. But hell obsession is mostly a Christian creation .

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  22. Ah yes this video. This video was the one that Eduardo showed me. The video that converted me hard towards absolute theism. As a man of science I like to stay up to date on groundbreaking scientific studies and a scientist discovered valid evidence that consciousness is not the brain. It’s a separate entity from the brain. Therefore brain creates consciousness theory gets thrown out the window and it’s now more along the lines of consciousness creates brain. I really enjoyed this video and I am excited to hear what he will announce in 2020. I think he has quite a few hits now.

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  23. Yep David. The Dr. Oz video. Seems to be both. Consciousness interacts with a brain but it seems to do it’s own thing without one too so has both created the brain and is also interacting with the brain. Very cool stuff.

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  24. I suspect he has more because of his comments about a consciousness field. I found those comments really interesting. Its also like he is trolling the skepic crowd.

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  25. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    Specifically, something that we already knew, is that the methodology used in phase II of the Aware Study consists of the use of tablets that will be placed above the patient when resuscitation is practiced with the intention of objectively proving the separation of consciousness from the patient. body (OBE) during clinical death.https://web.archive.org/web/20160509201054/https://www.ukctg.nihr.ac.uk/trials/trial-details/trial-details?trialId=31651

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  26. Samwise on said:

    It says in German that the writer attended and gave a lecture at a conference held by Sam Parnia in 2012

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  27. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    David, you say that Parnia’s statements in these videos (which I can not understand because I do not understand English) is like chasing the skeptical crowd. Now I wonder if that is because several patients have seen the hidden objectives only visible from the ceiling, or if it is because it has no validated case and the same Parnia is preparing to the “attack” skeptical, because He is convinced that consciousness is a separate entity distinct from the brain. You have understood the videos, what do you think?

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  28. Just my opinion……He has something because he knows the skeptic crowd would be ready to jump on him. The pentagon just did the same thing to them on ufos.

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    • You mean the case of the ‘flying tic-tac’? I was under the impression that they were forced to release that, not that the DOD wanted to release it to potshot the skeptics.

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  29. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    Thaks David

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  30. DOD really didnt but the former head of the program was able to avoid classifcation of the two videos. The Dod did confirm their autheticity and Raytheon confirmed it was their system but they lacked or could not fully confirm because of classifcation. The skeptics claimed it was a reflection and that pilots were not trained observers. The former head noted the objects had been picked up on radar and there was more classified video. But back to Parnia I have seen no recent reaction to his latest pronouncements. I really think he has a hit or more. I think his work is much more solid than the UFo. What they have in common is the ufo head has a suspicion of what they are. So does Parnia. I must say from what I have seen of both there is no doubt from Aware 1 that something we do not jnderstand is happening with conscioussness after death BUT I can not conclude what Parnia is now talking about conclusive proof and a consciousness field can be claimed. Since I know a lot about Parnia i stongly suspect he knows more than I do. The same is claimed on the ufo but I really have not follwed that at all until the New York Times. But Harry Reid and John Podesta do vouch for him. And Reid was the first warning about Russia in fall of 2016. He said that will suprise a lot of people when it came out. Looks like there are a lot of suprises. One other note on reaction to the ufo. Some true believers dont beleve tge pentagon. I cann see that. We have had a lot of lies . Daniel Schorr covered the pentagon for years and mentioned ufos. He did not think there was anything but with a history of lying…it was understandable many people did. Now the pentagon come clean and people dont believe them. As to after death we have had psychic con artists but Parnia is not selling anything like that…..he may with his consciousness field may be saying quite the opposite.

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  31. It will sure be interesting to know what this study finds. If NDE patients can really see things from above their body, if that is the case, then it would seem impossible to me that there wouldn’t be any verified hits, and that no one would be able to see what was on the computer screens. Because with most patients, the first thing they see during NDE is their own body and doctors working on this. So if this is real, it seems impossible that there would be no verified hits, regarding to what people see on the computer screens.,

    Which leads me to the conclusion that if there are no verified hits, then consciousness probably doesn’t seperate from the body during NDE.

    Of course you can never have 100% proof one way or the other.

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  32. Eduardo Fulco on said:

    http://www.extremamente.it/2017/04/06/pim-van-lommella-coscienza-sopravvive-alla-morte/ There are many NDEs where the subject separated from his body saw objects that he could not see from his own body. For example the case of Maria’s running shoes, the case of dentures of dr. Van Lommel, the case of the visualization of a 25-cent dollar coin on top of a caridaco monitor located 2, 4 meters high on the ground level, etc, etc … Now the impact emotional of an NDE does, as you say, that the attention is focused primarily on the medical work on the body of the subject and pass unnoticed an object that may be irrelevant … The researcher dr. Van Lommel, like others, thinks that it may be very difficult to see the hidden objectives … and understands that there is a reason for this called “blindness for lack of attention” as stated at the end of this article whose link left

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    • Eduardo Fulco on said:

      What in a few words says dr. Pim Van Lommel is that only if we have the intention to decide where to place the attention will we consciously perceive the event or object on which we focus

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  33. just_man on said:

    Can’t wait 2-2,5 years to find out exactly what does it all mean?:)
    Don’t jump the gun.
    If NDEs and afterlife are real, it will be definitely declared as truth in due time.
    “Increased confidence” (is it real or you just interpret it this way?) can mean anything.

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  34. Well that’s the thing. Doctors say “time of death” during cardiac arrest because the patient is for all intensive purposes dead. These patients are hooked up to machines that measure their brain and heart activity. During CA both activities flatline because there is no function in those organs. The whole dang thing shuts off. And these studies show that people are still able to perceive but not only perceive thought but perceive thought better then before. As such this alone provides valid evidence to the consciousness field theory. I bet he already has quite a few hits and there will be more as research continues and I am betting by 2020 he will have a lot of positive results to show in front of a broad audience. Let’s wait it out and see what happens. I bet lots of good will come from it. 🙂

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  35. All, this looks like from a recent interview (article published 10/2/2018) with Dr. Parnia and a microbiology researcher in Newsweek, written by a journalist. Also it’s about how cells and genes keep going for a fair bit after death. http://www.newsweek.com/where-do-you-go-when-you-die-increasing-signs-human-consciousness-after-death-800443

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  36. Parnia is correcting some earlier bad reporting here. Just because your brain cells are not dead has nothing to do with brain function. Some of the articles mentioned before Parnia are from open acess journals be very wary of those. Parnias papers and A1 were and are all peer reviewed.

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    • Exactly. If you remove the power from a computer, it is unable to work…period, it is technically dead, but resupply the power and the computer works again. The brain, for a period is just like this. Without the supply of oxygenated blood it will stop working within seconds. It no longer processes anything. Restart the supply of blood, and provided it is not too long, or the brain has been cooled, then it will return to full function. However, if cells start dying, then full function may not be restored, this is when the process of death starts to become irreversible. Technical death, when the heart has stopped and the brain is not working, is different from celular death, but it isn’t long before the latter catches up with the former. Much of Dr Parnia’s work has focused on methods that reduce cellular death during rescusitation.

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      • Exactly Ben Parnia is trying to explain this to the media…but the differnce is my tablet here is like well nothing…..its not a bat in deference to Thomas Nagle…..and it cant describe or hear anything when it powers down yet Parnia has seen it is not the case with the dead humans. …..and it oncevagain sure seems like Parnias got some more….

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    • I thought the first part of this (written by the journalist) a bit of an understatement,”How these patients were able to describe objective events that took place while they were dead, we’re not exactly sure, just as we’re not exactly sure why certain parts of us appear to withstand death even as it takes hold of everything else.”

      Substitute “we’re not exactly sure” with “we haven’t a clue”! With the last part of her sentence potentially solvable in physical terms. But I guess her article does suggest two completely different ontological positions.

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      • “But it does seem to suggest that when our brains and bodies die, our consciousness may not, or at least not right away.”

        Trying her hardest to ignore the elephant in the room. Never do they correlate these reports or conclusions with thousands of years of religious belief in an eternal soul. The establishment position on this has yet to form, but I suspect that once the data becomes impossible to ignore, it will take some atheistic/buddhist/quantum mechanical route.

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      • just_man on said:

        To Ben: what do you mean by ‘atheistic/buddhist/qm route’? Does existence of some form of consciousness after brain death implies certain religion’s statements are correct or incorrect?
        Does it somehow means there is an eternal soul? Even not all Christians accept it, and, for example, 7-day adventists have more reasons to reject it than the hardest atheists and materialists:) having as an argument not only ‘mind narrowness’ as you call it but Satan’s illusion as well.
        So we all need to know not only that consciousness is independent of brain and lives after brain death but also what form it takes exactly and HOW it exists.

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      • Just_man. I think the incontrovertible evidence that will come out of the AWARE II study, namely that the conscious can exist outside of the body will be interpreted in numerous different ways, with everyone, including myself, looking to fit these findings into their world view or religious outlook. The establishment wants a world without a specific personal God, as this challenges their authority, and Buddhism best suits this position.

        I am not going to say why I believe NDEs support my beliefs here, because I don’t want to derail this blog, but my book goes into that.

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  37. Egyptian is probably oldest at least oldest written

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  38. Ben, I hope you don’t mind I put this long transcript down I did from Prof. George Ellis, a Quaker and colleague of Stephen Hawking. It’s to do with purpose in the universe and he addresses the issue where some scientists live in an “intellectual silo” where two views never mix. Basically, science says the universe is purposeless yet we live lives of purpose. Your third sentence reminded me.
    I’d rather of not shortened it as he leads up to the “punch line”!

    It shows to me that philosophy is valid, not just physics is valid … because physics cannot answer seemingly meaningless questions which *must* logically be meaningless for only physics to be right.

    from https://finetune.physics.ox.ac.uk/videos/fine-tuning-conversations-george-ellis-and-ard-louis

    which I think is a fascinating project.

    Video is Explaining Fine-Tuning and this starts at 12:35 minutes.

    George Ellis and Purpose in the universe

    George Ellis
    You see, the question about purpose is a really very interesting one and the scientists turn around and say look at the laws of nature there’s no purpose in the laws and I agree on that the laws of nature the whole point about them is that there isn’t any purpose so then they say therefore there’s no purpose in the universe which is kind of a bit of a generalization. So you look at them and say just hang on a minute you came into the office in order to discuss this mystery, wasn’t there a purpose behind this and yeah there was a purpose in that, and you say by the way you built the Large Hadron Collider in order to discover, wasn’t there a purpose in that and say yes there was a purpose in that. But you just said there wasn’t any purpose in the universe and there’s something very, very funny going on there and the answer of course is you say well purpose is an emergent kind of quality. Well, is purpose written in to the structure of atoms and electrons and I don’t think that purpose is, I think it’s an emergent property and it takes us back to these possibility spaces. There‘s a possibility space for physics about the kind of physics that can happen which is another way of writing the laws of physics, there’s a possibility space for biology which governs the kind of things that come into existence in biology and it covers all possibilities, all the ones which … and there’s a possibility space for thoughts, you can only think a thought because it’s possible to think the thought which sounds like a tautology but actually it’s a very deep kind of statement.

    Ard Louis
    That’s a very big space.

    George Ellis
    It’s a very big space.

    Ard Louis
    Includes silly thoughts.

    George Ellis
    Yeah. But it’s finite.

    Ard Louis
    OK.

    George Ellis
    And the reason at a certain level, the reason that purpose comes into existence is because it is possible for purpose to come into existence. Now that’s an extremely deep statement. Purpose couldn’t come into existence and it does exist and I think it’s incontrovertible that purpose exists. It couldn’t come into existence unless it is possible for it to come into existence and so the deep question is why is there a possibility of purpose coming into existence. And that’s where the metaphysics and now we’re way out of science and the point about this is so the scientist says but look at my data I’ve got these telescopes and these forces and these strengths and my response to them is but look about this library, what are all these books in this library, look at history, look at ethics, look at aesthetics and so on, you are choosing to ignore all of that data and say that’s all irrelevant to the nature of the universe. Well if you are in on that basis so I’m only going to look at that little bit of data and I conclude the universe is purposeless, well of course that was because of the data you choose but if you at all of the data in all of these books around us here, the history of humanity, the history of ethics, the wars, the love, the hate, all the rest of it, there’s a huge amount of other data which is data about the universe because it occurs in the universe and is part of the universe and you must take that into account too if you want to enter this philosophical territory. There’s no obligation on a scientist to enter this philosophical territory but if you want to come with a statement about purpose and the universe or not you do have an obligation to take into account all of this other data as well as the data which you get by your telescopes, your microscopes, your laboratories and your particle colliders.

    Ard Louis
    Because otherwise you’re essentially engaging in nothing-but-ery.

    George Ellis
    And the fact, people who say there is no purpose in the universe, they’ve got this weird kind of thing that there’s this barrier in their mind, they’re bipolar, that they’ve got this theoretical life where there’s no purpose and they’ve got this practical life where there is purpose and they have got absolutely no connection between them because they’re living in an intellectual silo and they swap silos when they leave the laboratory and go home.

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    • Yes, I sometimes think of scientists akin to flees on an elephant. They have a deep and intimate knowledge of the details of elephant hide, but they have no idea what elephants are. Scientists have a deep understanding of certain aspects of science…the what…without being able to see the bigger picture…or the why.

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  39. I for one think that even with the results just recently that have been revealed such as this video that I can assume that these experiences are not illusions, delusions, hallucinations or whatever. The most common excuse a non-theist will throw out is that these death experiences are not during a period of death but actually just the person’s brain creating illusions in it’s death throes. The catch is though is that the brain cannot even hallucinate at the points during where the experiences occur in the study. Why? Because the brain is dead. There is no brain activity. The brain is fueled by neurological activity which is measured as well as blood flow to the brain. During CA there isn’t either of those. Patients are on machines that measure EEG and EKG respectively. Both flatline during these aware periods. Saying you can hallucinate becomes an oxymoron because there is no brain present at the time to perceive an hallucination or delusion. So what does this mean? It means the person’s mind is not the brain. The mind is a field comprised of incomprehensible material (most likely quantum based) that uses the material brain as a receiver. I already find the Aware 1 results as well as the Oz presentation fascinating and am very excited for Aware 2’s results.

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  40. You are very right. The skeptical claim now is it all occurs during wake up parnia closed that off. I guess that they will make claims about still alive but non communicating brain cells.At that point debate is over

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