Review of Parnia’s Lucid Dying
Should be a part of any NDE-nerds library:
I have given this five stars on Amazon as I know that anything less is regarded as average. Here, I would say 4.5/5. In summary an excellent detailed resource on NDEs from a rational scientific and philosophical perspective, but at times there is a bit too much detail for my liking, but I am still glad I bought it and would recommend to all who come here.
After an initial introduction he goes into a detailed overview of the pig brain studies, and other data that shows that the brain is viable for much longer than we think after death. If you are into science (as I am) and a story of how a great discovery was made, then worth sticking with it. There are some super interesting insights that you can glean from Parnia’s commentary of the whole Pig Brain episode, and how the full meaning of the results was deliberately conveyed in a confusing way. We on here however have understood the potential consequences – namely that a brain does not immediately die or decay within minutes or even hours, and if preserved in the correct manner that stopped any tissue degradation, and was reperfused in a way that avoided cellular damage due to reperfusion injury, could potentially be restored to full function, possibly many years later. This is all hypothetical as they haven’t yet presented data on allowing the pigs the possibility to function normally. This obviously has implications as to what happens to the consciousness in the intervening period.
He spends a lot of time discussing the terminology of death and how the use of the term “clinically dead” is unsatisfactory and meaningless but doesn’t really propose an alternative. I will stick with it for now!
Then he cites Bjorgin’s studies…oh dear. He has completely missed the fact that she claims the EEG signals happened during CA in the coma patients, but in fact happened before CA. It is somewhat concerning that he has fallen for it when others like Van Lommel have not. He does the same with Chawla’s data from 2009. My gut feeling is that her data feeds into his own personal pet theory of disinhibition as he goes on to weave the data of EEG signals around the time of death with AWARE II. If I am honest, much of it is a little misleading, and unless you are familiar with the studies he is talking about you will walk away with the conclusion that there is a lot of brain activity during early death and that it is definitely related to the experiences people report when they achieve ROSC and survive long enough to be interviewed. He thus overstates the importance of AWARE II. I’d probably do the same if I had spent years working on it!
On Page 74 of the Kindle version he alludes to the fact that the whole subject area is Taboo in science and medicine, and this may affect his approach and his desire to wed scientific observations with his personal dualistic understanding, but it doesn’t wash. As I have said so many times before, the observations of EEG activity before and up to 30 seconds post CA (in rats) without external assistance, or up to 60 minutes with CPR, have never been tied to actual conscious recollections, so all hypotheses proposed to explain this are purely speculative, and all evidence circumstantial.
He explains very well how the AWARE II study differentiated from other experiences such as psychedelic experiences (but only by including interviews from subjects who had reported NDEs outside of the study).
I must admit, since he hadn’t fully explained his theory of disinhibition before, I had made some assumptions about what he had previously said. He now focuses quite a lot on the disinhibition of natural processes that are normally inhibited (regulated) and mean we can cope with the vast amount of complex information in a sensible and coherent manner, and that when disinhibition occurs, the brain releases all kinds of hormones to kick the body back into life that would normally be inhibited. He also talks about accessing new dimensions of reality. However, he very much grounds this initial treatment of disinhibition into a physicalist explanation as “a unique state of hyperconsiousness”. Having done this he then moves into true NDE territory…the next phase of death…lucid death.
Page 104 (my Kindle version) is perhaps the most important quote regarding his absolute position on the subject:
“We agree that they experience a new dimension of reality in death. We also do not think the finding of brain electrical markers of hyperconsciousness means the brain is producing the experience. On the contrary, it means the mind and consciousness, tethered to the brain in death, are interacting with and modulating the brain. Of course, this discussion goes to the heart of the ancient mind-body problem, also referred to as “the problem of consciousness” by scientists and philosophers today.”
He is inferring this implies dualism. He may be right about dualism, and he may right about these neurological markers being that, but the EEG data itself is not direct evidence that supports that assertion…it merely allows speculation.
He then goes on to discuss NDEs of various people and the different aspects of them. He goes through each of the 50 different facets of the narrative arc he describes in the 2022 consensus statement. It is an expanded version of the original core elements and contains more detail and specifics. It is a particularly good reference and contains lots of excellent examples.
He then talks about the nature of consciousness, with a very detailed summary of the different theories of consciousness and how ultimately a brain-based understanding is not supported by the evidence. He cites Eccles and Hoffman a lot who have left behind physicalist or reductionist viewpoints.
He then looks at Olaf Blanke’s use of autoscopy to mischaracterise OBEs and says it is like putting lipstick on a pig. He is almost as outspoken about this and Timmerman’s work on psychedelics as I am about Borjigin’s claims. The gloves definitely come off!
Last section he goes into what it all means for us from a philosophical perspective. I agree with some of what he says, but disagree sharply on other stuff, but will leave that to the book that I am currently in the process of finishing and that will be available in the Fall. He talks about confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance…I recognise that I am possibly guilty of this at times but I think he has a blind spot towards his own failings in this area and regards himself as an impartial judge…but I will save that for my book.
One thing that comes out of the book is my sense that he has all but given up on a scientific verification of OBEs. I may be wrong, but he seems to have come a point where he regards the difficulties of gathering enough interviews of survivors as to be so overwhelming that he may have abandoned the effort of doing it. Hard to say. I hope not.
Anyway, I would recommend all NDE nerds buy the book. The first section is hardgoing, which his publishers should have helped him with, but it is worth sticking with it as you will really have a full and complete picture of the subject after finishing.
AwareofAware 
Regarding your theory of brain disinhibition…it may be that the brain releases all kinds of hormones to bring back to life what would normally be inhibited…but what does that have to do with lucidity…?
what does that have to do with lucidity…????
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Not my theory! I’m not sure how it relates really.
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Of course, Ben, it’s not your theory…Frankly Parnia is unclear on this….
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Sorry, it was late and I was being lazy (a perennial problem!) I actually think he may be on to something, but I am not convinced his EEG data is necessarily related to this.
Firstly, he describes the normal effects of inhibition in that our brain regulates the amount of sensory stimulation we respond to. My very crude and possibly incorrect understanding is that the limbic system which control emotions and fight or flight, responds to the amount of neurotransmitter inhibitors that are in place. When we are under threat, these inhibitors are removed to some extent and we able to receive a lot more information, process it faster and respond faster. Anxiety goes through the roof etc, so under normal circumstances this needs to be tampered down or we have severe mental health issues. At death, ALL inhibition is removed so that the hormonal system can go beserk and try to remedy the cause of death. Parnia extends this to the idea that normally our brains have inhibitors in place that stop us from sensing “other dimensions” or and perhaps keeping our consciousness tethered. On death, disinhibition occurs and allows the consciousness to “access these other dimensions” and presumably go off into them.
I may have got that wrong as I did speed read some bits, but that was what I felt the gist was. It kind of makes sense, and to me what I think we are seeing with some psychedelics is that they are interfering with this system and the consciousness wobbles around a bit, slightly loosened from its normal shackles and dips into these dimensions. Again, just me thinking out loud, but something I have suggested many times (and will eventually post about!).
As for the EEG data, I think that may well be what we see with Bjorgin’s studies if that is what is going on. As for Parnia’s data many minutes into CPR, I think if it does relate to his theory, if anything it is the brain attempting to RE-inhibit, or tether the consciousness.
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I don’t think so Ben. About the last thing you write Parnia has said in Parnia Lab videos that “disinhibition causes INACTIVE PARTS OF THE BRAIN TO BE ACTIVATED WHICH ARE SEEN AS TRANSIENT PEAKS OF ACTIVITY. This provides access to new dimensions of reality…”
This is highly objectionable since in Aware II there were many suppressed EEGs, i.e., no activity, which would be meaning that in those dead people disinhibition did not occur, according to Parnia’s theory.
Unfortunately, I will not have access to the book until it is translated into Spanish.
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I think the whole disinhibition thing, while appealing, is clutching at straws. I think the point you make about there being many suppressed EEGs is very important and supports what I have previously said about these signals just being signs of the brain trying to reboot again because the CPR is momentarily providing enough blood.
You may have to wait a while before it is translated.
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Hi Ben,
Thanks so much for sending me your wise and intelligent review of Parnia’s book. Your thoughts make very interesting reading which I intend to do at length several times to ingest your expansive thoughts.
I’ve tagged my name back onto AwareofAware’s blog page in case I’d ‘dropped off’ – but, like many, I lurk yet absorb …
Thanks again,
Marianne
Sent from my iPhone
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Glad you enjoyed it.
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I certainly think he has abandoned the OBE studies stating he was naive in doing it in the first place (stated in the book) given the number of patients needed. I hope he follows through on what he mentioned sometime in the past- the DHCA studies which would be a lot easier to implement since they can be controlled easier and it’s a “just wait and see” in my mind.
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The DHCA study started in summer 2020. There is no mention of it in the book though.
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Is the DHCA same as the COOL study or is that something else? Is it wrong of me to state that it sounds a lot like the Reynolds case?
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Yes it is like the Pam Reynolds case. The COOL study was supposed to take place in Montreal but never did, Parnia started something similar back in 2020 (or 21).
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Well that’s good to hear. Thank you! Perhaps it might take some time for hits based on the number of people undergoing this procedure. Somewhere I read that the survival rate from DHCA is around 90%. Much higher than CA. So that’s another major advantage over CA imho.
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As a side, In 2013, I chatted with Beauregard about COOL via email when reaching out to him to speak on the Skeptiko podcast. Beauregard stated “For reasons beyond my control, this study has never been conducted.” Perhaps an ethics approval thing, I don’t know.
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I think it was related to the surgeon moving to a different hospital. Or maybe it was stopped by physicalist administrators.
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Wait does that mean no more aware studies?
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I waiting a couple of weeks for the physical book version. I rather that format. But thanks for the summary Ben. Gives me a greater idea of what inside the book.
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Pingback: New release: Lucid Dying. – shojiwax.com
I have to hold on reading this… I’m only a quarter through the book!
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It gets (a bit) easier after the pig brain bits! He front loaded it with some really detailed stuff that is more relevant to preserving life than what happens on death. He is very detail oriented. If you are familiar the insight colour model for personality types I would say he is a Blue-Green.
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This was on my list already. Wasn’t sure if it was that relevant to OBEs but after reading this review I assigned this book a higher reading priority.
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I enjoyed reading Sam Parnia new book Lucid Dying. I would highly recommend it
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I enjoyed it too. What were your thoughts on his disinhibition ideas, and the evidence he provides to support this?
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I think its a viable theory of how consciousness gets released from the brain
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I agree, it’s a viable theory. What are your thoughts on Parnia linking the EEG data he sees in AWARE II to his theory and presenting it to the media as a fact?
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I, on the other hand, consider the theory of cerebral disinhibition at the moment of death to be totally unfeasible…..
Although I will have to wait for Parnia’s book to be translated into English, I do not consider this theory plausible:
First, because the electrocortical markers of what Parnia labels as “lucidity” did not appear in all EEGs.
Secondly, because of what Peter Ko (participant of this blog) stated about the opinion given to him by a molecular neurophysiologist, and supported by scientific studies, and which he shared in previous posts of this blog.
Thirdly, by opinions that I have collected from neurophysiology professionals, which confirm what Peter Ko said.
Fourthly, by the article that was uploaded on this blog authored by Nigel A Shaw.
Etc.
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I thought it was interesting. Maybe someday, we will have a definitive answer to the mind body problem. Time will tell. I just hope our consciousness survives in some form
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After you read his book Lucid dying, it might make more sense to you
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The point is not whether consciousness survives or not. Not recognizing the theory of cerebral disinhibition does not imply denying the survival of consciousness. Of course consciousness survives death, in my opinion…I am only saying that the theory of disinhibition, as such, has no basis from a “medical” or scientific point of view.
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I must admit, I am on the fence on this one. As I have stated many times, even if this disinhibition theory holds theoretical water or not, I do not believe the EEG data in AWARE II is anything to do with it. My guess is that it is just the brain trying to reboot physiologically as blood pressure occasionally reaches levels sufficient to sustain neurological function due to CPR. As for EEG activity as the consciousness leaves the brain, like I said I don’t really have a position except that you’d expect such as significant event to have some sort of marker…but that is just speculation without any evidence on my part. For me the bigger issue always has been whether any of this EEG data is related to NDEs, and there is absolutely zero evidence it is, and for the most part that is where my interest dies.
You are clearly quite passionate about his position Eduardo, and I must admit I would probably defer to you on this since you have clearly researched it more than me.
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I totally agree with you, Ben, on the latter: there is no evidence.
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It will be interesting to see where this all leads to in the future
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Ben- Thank you for sharing your thoughts on Parnia’s most recent publication. I have a feeling that I will be in agreement with your evaluation once I read the book. It’s on my way to me as I write this. I would be most appreciative if you would allow me a minor incursion into its content without having read the book with the following question. Basically, in his recapitulations of NDE accounts, however brief, does he mention reunions with deceased loved ones? Thank you and I hope that you can respond.
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It comes up briefly in the section where he details the 50 elements of NDE..
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Are there any new interviews with Sam Parnia about his new book Lucid Dying. If so please let me know. Thanks
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There was an interview in the Daily Telegraph in the UK today. It was very focused on the medical side of things, nothing on NDEs.
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Ok thanks Ben
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Ben, do you think there’s any form of defamation in the book? Parnia writes about studies that try to explain way NDEs but he denotes bad intentions of the part of the study authors.
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Hi Tony,
I doubt it very much. There is huge license for criticism of other people’s work, especially when the creator of the work draws disingenuous conclusions. If you can show what you say is true, under English law there is no defamation, and in the US you have the 1st amendment. In my view many of these atheist researchers have distorted the results of their work to try to further their world view.
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hello Ben,
I don’t konw if it’s a news or not. but the Dhca research page is disappeared from the nyu langone website.
https://clinicaltrials.med.nyu.edu/clinicaltrials/?kid=PARNIS01
there’s only four research left.
What that means?they got stong enough evidence or they give up DHCA?
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My gut feeling is that they have given up. There was a DHCA study published a while back, 2022 I think, that was also looking at this, and not a single patient had an NDE. The methods of doing DHCA have changed considerably since the Pam Reynolds case, or indeed the Montreal retrospective study by Beauragard, and that may have affected the likelihood of have an NDE. So my suspicion is that they have had zero cases after 3 years (or is it 4, think they started during the COVID era), and have maybe done over 100 DHCAs.
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But the 2022 study use the HCA not DHCA.my opinion is their patient is not close enough to the death.
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That’s right, I remember now, the body temperature was not so low. However, I still think the heart had stopped, so they were clinically dead. I think it may be more related to the manner they enter that state, maybe the speed. Let’s say there is a physiological trigger for the consciousness to leave the body, and there is a threshold of rate of change of heartbeat or something, maybe some methods of (D)HCA trigger it and others don’t. Either way, given his change in tone in recent months, I suspect that he has given up on this.
I have to admit, I have now settled on the position that barring a miracle, we will be left with the evidence we already have, which is for me is absolute proof, and that countless veridical OBEs, confirmed by HCPs who were prepared to go on the record. That is why we have to thank Titus Rivas so much, his book systematically creates an absolutely compelling case for the reality of OBEs, and should be the final word on it.
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But as a four years last study. There will no papper or even some data?I think(or hope )that they at least they will publish the data and make a papper.
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You’d have thought as much. Maybe they will present something at the American Cardiology Association convention in the Fall. That seems to be his chosen convention for doing these things. Then publish a paper in a journal after that.
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I reckon this is where he will present any results. However, he would either had to submit an abstract much earlier in the year, or do one as a late breaker if there was interesting data. Maybe next year now if there is no urgency. https://professional.heart.org/en/meetings/scientific-sessions
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After reading the Telegraph interview, and also his book Lucid Dying, I do think that Parnia is repositioning himself with a greater focus on his fantastic work in resuscitation medicine. In Lucid Dying he seems to have given up on ever getting a hit from an AWARE type study saying he would need 50,000 patients, which is an exaggeration, I think 10k would suffice, but he does not have the resources for that. In the Telegraph interview I don’t even think NDEs were mentioned, it was all about keeping people viable for days or even weeks after CA. This suggests to me that the DHCA study has indeed failed. He must be very disappointed, but at least he has a great career otherwise to fall back on, and can say he tried his hardest. All credit to him.
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Ben, I agree with you regarding the work of Titus Rivas… In 2007 (while Aware II began in 2008) the author of “The Self does not die”, Titus Rivas, wrote very wisely and accurately, something like:
“Under the influence of a materialistic science that almost exclusively attributes real value to “hard” (i.e., non-naturalistic or strictly controlled or experimental) tests, some researchers may be “infected” by the mistaken idea that extrasensory observations also during a flat EEG can only have real value if they can be observed under controlled conditions.
Observations in an out-of-body state, and extrasensory perceptions in general, focus (even outside of NDEs) primarily on things that are of personal interest to the person. It may then happen that what the researchers intend the patient to see (the hidden target object) in a controlled experiment simply does not interest the patient and instead he or she is interested in a special action during surgery or resuscitation.
Therefore, the non-occurrence of correct extrasensory perceptions under controlled conditions says nothing about the spontaneous occurrence of such perceptions outside of such a setting.”
It is worth clarifying that this last statement does not contradict other experiments of people who have self-induced out-of-body experiences, in order to describe what was seen in other places… In those cases, in which the target objective has been seen, it has been achieved that extrasensory perception because there was already a personal interest in wanting to achieve that pre-determined objective in advance.
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Excellent comment.
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Not sure why you say this. As of the time I’m looking at the link, there seems to be a link to the DHCA study (5 studies in all). Perhaps this is something else than what you are looking for.
https://clinicaltrials.med.nyu.edu/clinicaltrial/1308/pilot-study-examining-conscious/
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Yep, Peter and I either missed it when we looked, or it disappeared and reappeared! Very strange, because after Peter’s comment I had a really good look on the site as I remembered it being there the last time I looked, but couldn’t find it, then sure enough it was there when we both looked an hour later! Go figure.
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I’m sorry.it’s maybe a mistake.The DHCA page is still there.Maybe my vpn has some problems.You know the situation of chinese internet.
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That’s weird, because I looked under the research segment after your comment, and couldn’t find it either!! Then I looked again just now…it has to be said, and I am not sure if this is experimental evidence, but on my first hunt I had not yet had my coffee, but now I have had my double espresso, I found it straight away!
https://med.nyu.edu/research/parnia-lab/consciousness/conscious-awareness-during-deep-hypothermic-circulatory-arrest
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At ease everyone! He hasn’t given up after all 🙂
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We have same problem.I’m certain that there is only four page and no Dhca page as I leave the first comment.It “suddenly “change to five.
What can I say?
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Indeed. It is a reminder I need to upgrade this site!
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does anyone remember Parnia working with a woman at some point at the end of Aware2 who seemed to have recurring OBEs? Possibly promoting a book – I don’t recall. I had always assumed she had something interesting to add. I assumed she was going to be part Parnias book.
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Im looking forward to reading your book Ben. Did you say it coming out in September or october?
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More like October…will be very focused on what NDEs mean for my Christian faith, so not for everyone.
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