Guardian Podcast with Parnia
Thanks Dylan for being first off the mark to notice this, much appreciated.
I’ve now had a chance to listen this, and I would say it is possibly his best interview yet, so really recommend listening.
He clearly articulates his position on a number of different issues that we have discussed numerous times. He also asserts the fact we have been unable to understand consciousness from a scientific perspective, and that this entity is most likely separate and persists beyond death.
The skill with which he is able to articulate this in a manner that is digestible to the scientific community is outstanding. Despite the background “spook” Halloween music which could have undermined the credibility of what he was saying, he comes across as well balanced and engaged in genuine unbiased research to enhance our understanding of this topic. There are a couple of points that irk me, and one howler, but I’ve spent a lot of time already on them so won’t go there again for now.
The Guardian is a very skeptical newspaper so it is good for this to have appeared there.
AwareofAware 
Well, if that doesn’t give a tilt to your life I don’t know what will. Thanks again to Dylan and for posting!
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Orson, I agree the G can be skeptical but I’ve followed their stuff on consciousness over years which has been fascinating. One “Why can’t the world’s greatest minds solve the mystery of consciousness?” (2015) and “Has a 25-year-old bet taken us a step closer to understanding consciousness?” (2023) where Christof Koch bet David Chalmers consciousness would be solved by 2023. He lost. Both worth checking out!
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I agree good interview by Dr. Parnia.
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While I definitely feel he is coming off the fence in his recent appearences there’s no indications of any new hard evidence that haven’t already been presented. Like a conclusive hit for example. His speculation about the nature of consciousness is not new. I have heard him mention John Eccles more than a decade ago. Of course it’s good to be able to reference a big name with the kind of controversial research he is doing.
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I believe Dr. Wilder Penfield also was a dualist according to his book the Mystery of the Mind
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I don’t think we even need new hard evidence. The hard evidence is that EVEN WITH BRAINWAVES consciousness is occurring at a point that ALL of our current neuroscience says it cannot. That is hard evidence that our understanding of the brains dealings with consciousness is wrong… add in the quote literal mountain of evidence we have for survival and. Well here we are.
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I think what’s funny is that I am a person who’s terrified of death. I am at the point where I’m mostly invested in the works of Sinclair, DeGrey, etc to achieve some form of therapy to help combat against quote on quote “Natural causes” of death. So the idea that some form of immortality exists anyway is just crazy to process. People I think are just terrified by the prospect of some form of eternal life. Whether it be material or immaterial. Me though. I embrace the idea. I don’t wish to be erased. I want to continue living. Whether it be this life or the next one.
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I think a lot of people are simply terrified of being eternally bored! Though not a problem if you’re a creative.
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Very good interview. What he states here in conjunction with the comment he made in the previous interview where he clearly and incontestably removes himself from the body of scientists who believe that consciousness is a mental construct, I can confidently think of Dr. Parnia as a dualist, or, at least, NOT as a materialist.
On a minor philosophical note, I know that discourse on the topic of consciousness goes back millennia. But in recent times it has gained traction within the philosophical and, most especially, the scientific arena by orders of magnitude – not to mention to also include societal interest. I find it ironic – if not Providential – that scientists from a myriad of philosophical backgrounds are having to grapple with a mystery of which religion and the religious have been convinced for almost the same amount of time as the discussions. Could the summation of all the interest in consciousness be a prelude to discovering the Omega Point Teilhard de Chardin wrote about? I don’t know. It reminds my of this famed quote:
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” ― Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers
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https://www.livescience.com/physics-mathematics/quantum-physics/quantum-yin-yang-shows-two-photons-being-entangled-in-real-time
I’d say you seem to be correct.
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That is a great quote that I have heard many times before. Science points towards the existence of a creator.
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Still…still…how cool would it be if someone(s) could report on the messages or objects displayed at ceiling level during an OBE. That would be a drop the mic moment. Having said that, I’m sure the skeptics would persist even if that occurred.
I myself mostly believe but I continue to have a dose of healthy skepticism. I think you have to continue to challenge the data and assumptions on both sides…the final results will be more robust as a result.
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This work by Sam and others tells me we’re all the same, as from the same Source. We *learn* differences on Earth, hence conflict in all forms, and only through the jolt of an NDE are we reminded of this Source.
I could imagine a little group of intelligent babies just born, with no Earth knowledge, chatting together, … “we all came from There, just now”, they say.
This message of this unique work should be spread – it can only help heal differences.
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Long recent interview with Sam Parnia Nov 7
https://think.kera.org/2023/11/07/what-its-like-to-survive-cardiac-arrest/
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After 22 minutes he talks of the interviews with 126 people outside the 567 person study (this 126 group is in the 2023 paper) which gives more experiential meat to the “Theme-4) recalled experience of death (RED)” in this 2023 paper, page 6.
https://www.resuscitationjournal.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0300-9572%2823%2900216-2
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Actually he says “examined 126 people’s testimonies, these were community survivors of cardiac arrest from all over the world”, to be clear, so looks like they didn’t interview them.
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I’ve never been convinced about the way he has included this in the AWARE II study.
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Maybe that’s one thing the die-hard skeptics will also jump on (not you!). But isn’t it the best one can do at this point? 🙂 Esp. as Sam has been exposed to powerful cases one strictly can’t call “scientific” – i.e. powerful anecdotes. Then more medical groups will do further work.
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Anynews on when Rethinking Death will be released to the public
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Ben ,what’s your profession now?
You ,are a neuroscientist right?
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I have worked in neuroscience and may be working in it again soon as a medical scientist.
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Great.
Have you read ,”the self does not die” book?
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It sounds crazy, but I haven’t. I just bought it as it seems well researched and countless others have recommended it (I am a bit lazy).
Also, the fact is I am utterly convinced that NDEs are real so to some extent don’t feel the need for more evidence. The area I am exploring in detail now is how this relates to faith/religion, particularly my own christian faith.
While NDEs may have some common elements, each NDE is unique and therefore it is difficult to draw definitive conclusions about what to think. The key thing for me is that the following aspects of NDEs seem to repeat over and over:
1. The soul can/may be eternal.
2. All our souls are connected…we are brothers and sisters all coming from the same “parent”.
3. This parent is the ultimate being of light or “God” as many describe it.
4. This being is infinitely loving and desires us to be loving.
5. There appears to be no judgement, but there is a life review where there may be a bit of squirming.
6. There is a Hell, a place of suffering, but it seems you can escape it.
7. There is a darkness from which there may be no escape (annihilation?)
8. There is a heavenly realm where you will likely find relatives and “others” connected to your existence (angels?)
9. This place is home and earth is a somewhat unpleasant place we come to learn and grow.
I watch one or two YouTube NDE accounts a day at the moment. It can be unsettling, and I am not sure that immersing yourself too deeply in this is a good thing, but there is certainly much to learn if you can keep your head and anchor yourself. My anchor is my faith. I am wary that NDEism might end up becoming a religion, in some ways through the New Age movement it is, but while it certainly provides clear guidance on how we should live in relation to each other and assurance that heaven and God exist, it lacks a method which you can apply daily to move towards improving yourself and accessing God. That is where “religion” (a horrible word) comes in. Each religion has prophets who provide this guidance
This process has caused me to really examine my faith deeply, and ask some tough questions. Until very recently I believed that my Christian faith says there is a judgement, but then I read what Jesus says specifically on this and he says that God does not judge and that all judgement has passed onto him, but in reality he does not appear to judge people either (e.g. the adulteress woman). That blew my mind. I had probably read the words saying that God does not judge a hundred times, but never noticed them! He also makes it clear that Christians will be held to a higher standard than all others since they have been given truths from God himself…eek! Also, any final belief I had in the exclusivity of Christians surviving death has been stripped away. Even Jesus does not say this, but some within the church have latched onto it. Jesus does say that he is the way…but it is inclusive not exclusive.
So rather than undermining my faith it has caused me to really spend more time under the hood, and focus’s solely on what Jesus says, rather than Paul. I have absolutely no doubt the God NDErs describe entered this dimension just over 2000 years ago in the body of Jesus Christ and showed us precisely how he wanted us to live. The alignment between what Jesus says, how he behaved, the accounts of supernatural occurrences (not really that difficult if you created nature) and NDE reports are too strong for him to have been anything other than who he said he was.
I am not trying to convert anyone, just sharing what I have been doing recently.
Oh, sorry, you just asked me if I had read The Self Does Not Die… 😁
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I was asking it ,because it has some argument’s against skeptic’s and many tactic’s they use. So,I thought you would have read.
I cannot afford so I ,was thinking if you could make a review of it.
I like your thought’s on religion and NDE’s but in my case that’s oppositie maybe my religion could have predicted many thing’s but they couldn’t verify it.
This time we have tech to do so,and learn more.
So, I have just come upon the conclusion that nothing can explain this.
I am not denier anyway but it could be useful to be in a position which is doubting.
Anyway, I have more question’s : I would ask you after a week ,because I am going on vacation.
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Oh ,and are you available on reddit?
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No
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You could contribute more with your neuroscientific expertise.
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