AWARE II (interim?) results presented at AHA 2022
Thank you to Cobra for being quick off the mark and seeing this.
It appears that Sam Parnia presented the results from AWARE II at AHA yesterday in Chicago. This is a press release which has appeared on various websites, but it does not contain any specific details about observations that were made or about any correlation with spikes in brain waves and these observations.
Here is a link to one of the press releases, but they are all the same:
The key quote for me is this:
“Survivors reported having unique lucid experiences, including a perception of separation from the body, observing events without pain or distress, and a meaningful evaluation of life, including of their actions, intentions and thoughts toward others.”
Clearly, they must have at least one visual OBE…however, there is nothing in this article to suggest it has been scientifically validated, and given that they only have a pool of 567 patients who had a CA with the iPad in the room, and only 10% survived to discharge, meaning they maybe have 100 interviews at the most, I am very sceptical now that we will get the much hoped for hit.
If anyone is able to get more details please post here in the comments.
edited to add: The more I look at the press release, the more I am of the opinion that these are not the final results – we will see.
AwareofAware 
It is unfortunate that this report is one of Sam Parnia’s most ambiguous, not to say “materialistic.” Which will create a lot of confusion. Of course very ill founded, and in contradiction to previous interventions of Parnia (for example, in the Bigelow).
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I don’t think it really sounds anymore materialistic than his other recent articles and interviews. He still says other realities, and that it brings up interesting questions about human consciousness etc.
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It is very ambiguous, and suggests that there is a materialist explanation for NDEs, which is completely contrary to what he has previously said. However, I think you can read what you want into it. This remember is a scientific conference, and the data is always presented in a very factual manner with no hyperbole.
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Ugh I hope this doesn’t pin down a materialistic explanation…
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The only way they could state categorically that it was the result of natural processes would be if they had brain waves sufficient to produce consciousness with a timed “observation”, or all the NDE cases had waves, and the non-NDE cases had none. I doubt that is what happened.
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More research is needed. I personally don’t think that there will veridical perception. However,, I could be wrong
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This statement from the report doesn’t do much to add confidence:
“…suggests that the human sense of self and consciousness, much like other biological body functions, may not stop completely around the time of death, adds Parnia.”
“…much like other biology body functions.” Seems to suggest that Parnia is adopting the presupposition of materialism here.
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I agree, that particular line leans very heavily towards materialism.
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I didn’t read it the same way.. I take it as saying that the body doesn’t die at once, but that biological functions, even those not related to the neurological system, continue for a while.
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Additional testimonies from 126 community survivors of cardiac arrest with self-reported memories were also examined in this study to provide greater understanding of the themes related to the recalled experience of death.
An interesting piece from the press release
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This is from the other work they have been doing. I would want to know what criteria determined how they were included. I have emailed the lab and hope to get a reply,
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It’s a very ambiguous press release, and not exactly a new one since at least as far back as February you can find him saying some of the same things word for word.
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I totally agree with Ben in that one could read what they want to it, and that it is a medical national Congress and one should be very careful with their statements.
It seems no different from the article published in March-April, and the following interviews.
By reading the press release, it seems they are not really stating a causative effect, and avoid the term correlation, they just say brain waves observed could be signs of (like markers).
Seem the same statements from Parnia, some of them refrased. Like “suggests that the human sense of self and consciousness, much like other biological body functions, may not stop completely around the time of death, adds Parnia” . It is very similar with his old statement “doesn not disappear at death” or similar. Although it seems he is measuring his words to fit only with what data shows and nothing else.
If you go back to March talk on “lucid dying” (and they had these data back then) seem they only dare speak freely when not in official statements…cause they said that all four of them didn’t believe consciousness arises from physical matter. You can’t really say that and the next month, with no new data, say otherwise.
So yes, he is fence sitting, as Ben said once. His statements please whoever is reading them.
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I would like to see what was actually presented though. The data mentioned here includes events up to March 2020, however the study was scheduled to continue recruiting until this year, and was looking to recruit over 1000 patients and in this press release they refer to 567. I know we had COVID, but the hospitals were only rammed for 2 periods of about 2-3 months each time, otherwise ERs would have been fairly normal.
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so no hope of life after death?
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I think the biggest take-home from AWARE is that the assumption that brain activity collapses to levels unable to maintain conscious activity during cardiac arrest is clearly wrong. This is a major pillar of the survivalist argument – well it was. Personally, I’ve given up on AWARE, but I am interested in the Montreal COOL replication. Are there any updates on this?
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I have heard nothing about the COOL II study.
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I mean, the thing is that not just *any* activity is related to high level cognitive activity, the kind exhibited in NDEs and in waking life, but specific activity in differing wave types and wave lengths. Some activity in gamma waves is related to muscle movement but not to cognitive functions or awareness. So it’s not just if there is some activity, it has to be specific activity.
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I agree Olivia, and ultimately the brainwaves need to be correlated with reported experiences (or not) for them to have any relevance to the central questions that lie at the heart of our discussions.
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Look at this rationally. The data is from 2017-2020. Bigelow essay was in 2021. He wrote similar things in bigelow essay. Another thing is that this phrase is quite interesting. “These lucid experiences cannot be considered a trick of a disordered or dying brain, but rather a unique human experience that emerges on the brink death,” If i understood that correctly, he might be even saying that it is not our brain which is comforting us to cope with death. Lets move to this point: As the brain is shutting down, many of its natural braking systems are released. Known as disinhibition, this provides access to the depths of a person’s consciousness, including stored memories, thoughts from early childhood to death, and other aspects of reality. That is freaking huge. I do not know again if i understood his way of thinking. But for me it looks like he is suggesting us that the brain might be a filter. I have managed to create my own theory right now. We know that brain activity is correlate of consciousness. We do not know if these correlates create consciousness or just they mark activity of consciousness. What if our consciousness is still linked to our brain, becouse there is still hope of return. What if our consciousness is viewing everything from the “unbound” form of itself, and we have the memories of death becouse the connection was still existing. What if the people who did not remember nde, do not remember the nde becouse the consciousness got disconnected from brain but was able to return. It is just speculating. No science behind that. Just guesses. what do you all think about it excluding the part starting with a phrase: “i have managed to create my own theory”
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Many seem disappointed to see brain activity associated with NDEs, obviously because it lends fuel to some materialist arguments.
But really, the brain HAS to be involved somehow. These experiences are being relayed to us by living, conscious people who are drawing these events from the memories stored in their brain.
Perhaps those who experience CA who recall the event exhibit these brainwaves during resuscitation, while those who don’t recall are completely flat. Perhaps a brain which it trying to fire up again, records a conscious experience that is happening during death – and is able to form a memory of that experience in the brain, which can then be recalled after they are resuscitated. In fact, our current understanding of how the brain works, would necessitate some type of brain activity to make memory possible.
Just some thoughts. Nice to get a few more tidbits at least!
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You touch on a very interesting paradox of NDEs Neil. How can a brain that is not working record memories? I’m not convinced that you answer that. It relates to the reports of many NDEers who suggest that memory is stored outside of our bodies. Max was opining on this yesterday, and that consciousness is just experience. All experience is stored “centrally” and our brains have access to that which is unique to us while we are alive. It does sound a bit fruity, but there is no other explanation as to how people can have lucid memories while their brain wasn’t properly functioning…and spikes of activity would not allow for the creation of such a clear narrative or “story arc” that is described in NDEs.
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I too can get unashamedly fruity:)
Of course I’m just speculating. But, science has a pretty good understanding of where the memory centres of the brain are, and how people can lose memory when those areas are damaged.
Now – It may be that these areas are simply relaying info from ‘Elsewhere’. In fact, I personally believe the brain facilitates consciousness from Elsewhere somehow.
But, if one believes (as I do, and I assume you do) that our ‘selves’ are at least partially a consciousness that existed long before our birth, then the question becomes, why do we not have memories of this that are easily accessible? I can easily remember experiences from when I was twelve, which I assume were recorded when I was experiencing gamma, delta, theta and beta waves. But I cannot re-call ‘previous experience’, pre-birth easily.
I can’t say what amount of these higher mental function waves are required to imprint an experience on memory. Perhaps catching just some waves during an experience, is enough to imprint the whole experience in our human brain memory? Even though our human brain isn’t consciously experiencing it at the time? So, perhaps our wider consciousness is having an experience common to death. Our malfunctioning brain somehow kicks in and starts spiking in relation to that conscious experience, still connected but happening ‘Elsewhere’ and subsequently and inadvertently drops it into our human memory bank for easy retrieval.
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Some people do claim to access memories from “previous” lives. I personally believe that in general this life is a place of testing and learning, where our “immature” consciousnesses or spirits are placed in this created reality to be tested. If we are allowed too much knowledge, then the test is too easy. I believe, that by design, our brains are for the most part only able to access knowledge from our direct experience to keep the “test” true. This is of course religious and philosophical speculation somewhat aligned with my personal beliefs about life the universe and everything, so take it that context.
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In my opinion he is not saying anything new. I think you are reading too much into his exact wording. The Aware II appears to have produced limited new data leading to the conclusion, that further research is warranted.
I’m of course really disappointed about there being no ‘hits’.
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in my opinion it is exactly the same thing we heard here:
https://neo.life/2022/08/your-brain-at-the-moment-of-death/
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The use of the word disinhibition is consistent with descriptions of the filter hypothesis of consciousness. I’d be interested in his thoughts in more recent interviews or writings.
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I don’t see this as purely materialistic. If anything Parnia shoots down all the proposed explanations thus far. It’s not a hallucination or delusion from lack of oxygen, DMT, etc. It’s a uniquely human experience of consciousness with no explanation and should be investigated “without prejudice.” That seems pretty forceful in the mainstream academic world. Makes sense there could be brain waves that pop up since there must be some tie to the physical world in order to report it later. Whatever Parnia thinks personally does not matter and frankly any clear opinion would only hinder the study. But it’s kind of clear the authors don’t really know what this means and I think Aware 2 will not definitively answer any questions
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I think much of what you say is right, ad agree that AWARE II seems unlikely to shed any more light on what are the facts about our existence. Maybe that is the way it is meant to be.
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“Dimensions of reality”
Sam comments quite a lot to Newsweek on this recent presentation,
https://www.newsweek.com/near-death-experiences-out-body-phenomenon-study-1757602
He mentions “dimensions of reality” … “This disinhibition seems to give access to parts of the brain become [becoming] activated and seeing spikes in EEG activity and gives access to dimensions of reality they otherwise did not have access to, including full consciousness.”
This business about “dimensions of reality” is in the Supporting Information section, “File S2. Understanding consciousness in relation to death and the recalled experience of death” in their 2022 NYAS paper,
“Guidelines and standards for the study of death and recalled experiences of death––a multidisciplinary consensus statement and proposed future directions”
https://nyaspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/nyas.14740
File S2 can be clicked on at the bottom. There’s a lot there! And I wonder that they wouldn’t *go there* pretty deep on this unless they think there is some access to dimensions in an NDE state.
Re discussion of memories above and Sam says this in Newsweek … “The most interesting aspect of this is [the patient] starts to have full memories of everything they have done and all their thoughts and intentions toward other people throughout their entire life,” he said, relating the memory recognition as equivalent to an instant computer data download. [question, where from? Just the brain?]
I’m with Wiktor Fiegler above who mentioned the Bigelow essay and this new paper should be also linked to the Bigelow essay and this “dimensions of reality” business.
And who is doing the “guiding” when we will have our life review?
“It’s a purposeful, meaningful reevaluation of every aspect with a focus on morality and ethics and how they conducted themselves. It’s really quite bizarre,” he said [Newsweek]
Doesn’t make sense to me that it’s a part of me. Seems like something external, as people I think report.
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As I state very clearly in my book, th evidence from science, and from NDEs points very clearly towards the understanding that life is created – i.e. there is a creator, that our consciousness has the potential to persist beyond death, and potentially for eternity. That is what the evidence suggests.
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He rejected all probable explanations. How the ndes are created. Thanks to it, i recall the fact, that our brain assigns a given type of memory to a given frequency. And the brain treats NDE memories as if they were real memories. The brain treats them like something that really happened. Parnia says these are neither illusions, nor dreams, nor hallucinations. It also says that this is not a dying / dysregulated brain trick. So what the hell is that ?? He talks constantly about these other dimensions of reality. In my opinion, this is not a materialistic approach, a rejection of every materialistic explanation. Apart from the fact that it is not a trick of the dying brain, it says nothing new. He has been saying similar things since March / April. The only thing that is a bit materialistic is that there are brain waves. There is one very interesting thing, we never had an NDE that was coming to an end. We never had an NDE that suddenly stopped and it was dark. The NDE always ended (if forgotten) when the person returned to their body either because they wanted to or were ordered to return.
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You are right Wiktor. I think the issue with this press releases for us is that the language he uses to point towards non-materialist explanations is less overt than we see elsewhere, and the focus on brainwaves makes us all nervous of a potential materialistic approach…however, nothing has really changed and we need to understand the context of this announcement – a medical scientific congress.
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Parnia has said for many years that death is not an moment, but a process that can take several hours before the cells die and it can be potentially reversed in the beginning. I do not necessarily see materialistic but just agreed to facts. If he goes into the neural correlates of the NDE then maybe NDEs don’t prove anything.
We’ve had the 57 year old truck driver in AWARE 1, Greyson’s work, etc. Granted, not controlled picture/iPad hits, but the question I meant to ask on the previous post was what confidence interval do we assign the verified anecdotal evidence vs the controlled pictures? Wouldn’t veridical perception trump all here?
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Nic, in a world in which materialism wasn’t a ruling dogma adhered to by much of the academic hierarchy, then yes, the huge amount of empirical evidence provided by the tens of thousands of veridical OBEs would fall well within the usual 95% confidence intervals assigned to studies…I’m not sure how the CIs would be defined, or calculated, but ultimately from an intrinsic level, we have all the data WE need to know the truth on this matter. For the materialistic world to allow a crack to appear in the foundations upon which it has built modern society, it needs a scientifically validated “hit”.
On the matter of cells dying, and death being a moment…me and Tim had a bit of a falling out over the whole issue of the definition of death, and that I was adamant, based on dictionary and legal sources, that death without the word “clinical” preceding it has a clear meaning of being irreversible and is indeed a moment, a time point, beyond which the body cannot be revived. However, the process of dying – reaching the point of death – in the absence of organ destroying damage – occurs on a cellular level and recent research has shown that it can take many hours and the potential exists, given the right “storage” and resuscitation techniques, to extend the period between the point of clinical death (no EEG or ECG) and final death to many hours, maybe even years, therefore arguably, provided peoples bodies are potentially revivable at the point of clinical death, pronouncing final death is subjective and arbitrary. The whole issue creates an area of uncertainty of definitions and semantics and is the reason I object to the use of the acronym RED – NDE is actually a more accurate acronym if one allows for the standard definition of death. However, semantics aside, it is abundantly clear that during the time of clinical death, some people experience their consciousness leaving their body in a way which is entirely different from any other human experience, and specifically the types that Parnia refers to such as dreams or hallucinations – they are lucid.
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I am beginning to think that the results presented on Sunday were interim results, not the final results. I have changed the title of the post to reflect this. We will see when/if the final publication arrives.
I am attending an all day meeting now and will not be able to post or reply to any comments, so don’t be offended or feel neglected if your interesting thoughts or revelations are met with silence on my part 🙂
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Hi Ben. FYI – a Newsweek article with additional info from an interview with Sam Parnia.
https://www.newsweek.com/near-death-experiences-out-body-phenomenon-study-1757602
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https://www.abstractsonline.com/pp8/?_ga=2.13911991.1048985174.1667805810-624709610.1667805810#!/10691/presentation/249
Here the abstract too
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Thank you Z. I have been in a meeting all day so not been able to follow the discussion. Frankly, this abstract is extremely disappointing. I will summarise my thoughts on it tomorrow, but the fact they interviewed even less people than AWARE I says it all for me.
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I have had sight of the full presentation now. I will not post any of the images, but summarise key points. Ultimately though, there is not much more in terms of newsworthiness than is provided in the abstract. One visual awareness,but no sight of target…I will go into this and the brainwave info a little later on this evening in a new post…had a long day!
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Thanks Alan and Neil for locating the newsweek article. I had to re read ttevdarevas thought it was July first it was written
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In my opinion, the Nesweek article is quite optimistic when it comes to the nature of nde. The abstractonilne is less optimistix but gibes us important data.
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I am not a native english speaker, so sorry for any mistakes!
The conclusion of the abstract really bothers me.
“Consciousness and awareness may occur during CA. The recommencement of near-normal/normal EEG may reflect a resumption of network-level of neuronal and cognitive activity, a biomarker of reported lucidity/consciousness, and recalled experiences of death (“near-death” experiences).”
Doesn’t that mean, that they linked nde’s to a normal EEG? Isn’t that exactly what materialists were expecting? Thus is this the end of a survivalist point of view?
But why would Sam Parnia then have submited the Essay for the Bigelow Essay? Or is there something in the Studio, that isn’t shown in the abstract, that supports the anti materialistic standpoint?
I am quiet worried right now
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I’m still interpreting it in a more materialistic way, unfortunately. I am reading, they are convinced, that the NDE or RED is not an illusion or hallucination but still produced by the brain. It transforms the experiencer because of it being meaningful. Also it brings the info, that the brain seems to storage memories of the whole life, but those memories are only released when the rest of the brains functions close. This it what Parnia calls dimensions of other realities, because we usually don’t have access to them in normal life. The only thing that is unclear and in my opinion not explainable via brain are OBEs. But so far not mention, they got some OBEs in this study.
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Good point! I am also tending to this understanding.
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I have now had sight of the full presentation, including EEG and O2 data. I will create a post a bit later this evening on it, but won’t post the actual slides out of respect to the sender.
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I find the Newsweek article a bit poor, it takes statements Parnia has been saying since early this year and composed the whole text, but it is not really an interview.
The abstract is the very same information that was published in the AHA 2019 Congress. The difference is that in the conclusion, in 2019 they said concious cognition was possible during CPR, and now the say that thes brain waves might be biomarkers of NDE. This is a very plain scientific statement.
However, as I said before, they had this data March, and their main conclusions was that correlation implies no causality, that they believed consciousness does not arise from physical matter, and Parnia kept saying that during CPR the brain shuts down (ignoring the now important part of the brain waves detected).
It seems to me that:
-they found no correlation between spikes and experiences
-they have to justify their findings, and explain them.
-depending who writes the article for the press the perspective changes, cause most of the time the author explains what Parnia said and meant.
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There’s more new Sam Parnia comments here at Medscape – November 7 2022 (he is interviewed by theheart.org | Medscape Cardiology). You have to create a free account.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/983675?src=rss
From the Abstract that Z found above (thanks to Z) …
11 people … who “reported memories/perceptions suggestive of consciousness”. If you read the Medscape article they expand a bit on this on what these 11 people experience. Parnia also says they are “a unique human experience that emerges on the brink of death.”
No visual hits from the Abstract. I wonder what the auditory hit was? What was the detail from those 11 people?
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This medscape article is hugely materialistic
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I’m quite new to this blog but I started to consult it for about 1 year now. Contrary to many people there, I’m very pessimistic. Parnia’s latest interventions reveal a sense of delusion from him and because of that, I’ll stop value his commentary on his finding. He knows 2 important things that reinforce the materialistic (and pessimistic) approach but tend to always favor the most incredible scenario, for comfort I guess.
First, as they noted, it seems that there is enough brain activity during CPR to allow consciousness. We don’t know precisely if there is a correlation between this brain activity and reported memory but if the opposite was true then you would hear him saying that this has nothing to do with NDEs and that you can report an NDE while your brain is flatlined.
Secondly, THEY KNOW that there are cases of delusions (misattribution of medical events). So THEY KNOW that not all OBEs are accurate which means 2 things :
-The brain can generate the same experience as the “soul”. What a happy coincidence !
– Accurate OBEs can perfectly be attributed to lucky guess. If I hide a card with a number between 1 and 10 and ask 10 persons to guess the right number on the card, and 1 out of 10 guess the right number, I don’t deduce from it that this person is a medium and the 9 who were wrong don’t have mediumship talent. It’s just LUCK. So among the millions all over the world who experience an NDE with OBE you can except few testimonies matching reality. But what about the other ones? They don’t interest medias and specialists of NDEs.
The mediocrity of the guideline published by Parnia earlier this year should also have alerted you. This is pure circular reasoning : “If it’s a false OBE then it’s the brain. If not, it’s the soul”. “RED are not hallucinations because they are different than typical hallucinations”. Who are they to say there are a limited range of hallucinations? “Distressing NDEs are due to meds”. So now they value the materialistic approach ? Why this reasoning doesn’t apply for the non-distressing ones ?
By the way, as the abstract posted by Z reveal, “nobody identified/recalled the correct visual image”.
My though is although materialists or skeptics can be dogmatics, dualists like Parnia seem to be driven by wishful thinking and will always find a way to interpret the results in a way that favor the scenario we wish to be true.
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I know what do you mean. I am huge pesymist too. I am posting some comments from second account(Wiktor Fiegler). I have no idea what can explain nde and what the heck they are. I have posted my opinion and some unlikely and optimistic views(which are probably not true) But i have read these ar5icles, and only new thing we have is slecified data about how many people, and statistics.
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I think, respectfully, your pessimism is unwarranted and is distorting your conclusions. For example, NDEs in which the patient reports verídicas accounts are ones in which patients describe situations, as in Pam Reynold’s case, not a number between one and ten which could be attributed to luck.
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I lost my mom 1,5 year ago so I can tell you I have no interest in being pessimistic. My pessimism is a consequence, not the cause of something. The surgeon who operated on Pam Reynold has performed 5,000 other similar operations since. Why haven’t we seen other cases like Pam Reynolds? Why does the version of the surgeon differs from the one reported by the skeptics ? Why both skeptics and surgeon don’t report the same chronology of facts ?
The use of the card example just serves to highlight the lack of reasoning of these specialists who collect NDEs stories. We know that millions of people have had these kinds of experiences this year alone around the world. For sure you can find incredible stories but what about OBEs and NDEs with false information reported ? I have read report of NDEs including false prophecies (all prophecies that were tested on time are false by the way), people in heaven who are still alive on earth, OBEs including clear false representation of reality.
If dozen of millions of people have already reported NDE stories since 1970’s, why are we still debating on the nature of heaven ? Maybe because these stories are not that convincing ?
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Good points, I would be really interested in what @Ben has to say about all this.
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Having looked at the presentation slides, I have to say I am disappointed. I will elaborate later, but in truth I do not feel we are any further forward than we were 15 years ago.
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The explicit visual awareness cue was not picked up. However three things noted together are interesting when looked at together>
From the press release as mentioned in the blog post above:
#observing events without pain or distress#
From the abstract:
#Auditory awareness was described by 2/28(7.1%), visual awareness by 1/28(3.5%)#
From the newsweek piece:
#Many patients recalled that while the resuscitation was happening, there was a “perception of separating,” in which the patient had a visual awareness of the medical team administering CPR.#
I suppose we need to know whether or not these these things serperate or perhaps refer to the same incident.
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They don’t precise if the visual awareness is accurate.
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That is true. We just need to see the details of this however.
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“These lucid experiences of death are not hallucinations or delusions. They cannot be considered a trick of a disordered or dying brain, but rather a unique human experience that emerges on the brink of death,” Parnia told theheart.org | Medscape Cardiology. Do you guys think that when dr. Parnia says disordered/dying he means that these experiences are not brain comforting itself or is it just me?
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I think I’m stressed LOL!
How I interpret these aware 2 articles literally depends what mood I’m in!
There’s things that sound materialistic then there’s things that don’t.
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Wiktor, if we consider the many anecdotes people give of NDEs where even someone like Sam Parnia has said they could not know by normal vision the details they give, then that tips the balance into a non-material explanation needed for NDEs.
But anecdotes aren’t science but they also cannot be dismissed by science. Sam does not dismiss this. So, I’d be interested to hear what Sam now has to say about this. He’s previously said the self, consciousness, the thing that makes people what they are could be an “undiscovered scientific entity”. Will he still say say this? Is another “dimension of reality” something that is nothing to do with the brain?
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There is also an Instagram post and a link to an article in their bio. The article also sounds pretty materialistic, as I understand it.
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They are all the same in my opinion
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Detection of Rhythmic Brain Waves Suggestive of Near-Death Experiences
“These recalled experiences and brain wave changes may be the first signs of the so-called near-death experience, and we have captured them for the first time in a large study,” says Sam Parnia
“Our results offer evidence that while on the brink of death and in a coma, people undergo a unique inner conscious experience, including awareness without distress.”
I read it all like they found a correlation between nde’s and eeg data. I know, corralation is not causation, but I had hoped for a different outcome. Because if there was flatline eeg with nde or even the one case, which could recall the auditiv stimulus, it would be a huge win and to be honest a huge relief for me. I still have hopes for the stimulus tho. Maybe we should wait for the whole results – does anyone know, how long it’ll approximately take it for them to publish them?
It’s weird tho, because Sam Parnia always sounded a bit dualist and all of a sudden it seems like there is not much of that left. I mean, he knew about his study.
I am not native english, so I might understand some sentences wrong.
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These recalled experiences and brain wave changes may be the first signs of the so-called near-death experience, and we have captured them for the first time in a large study,” says Sam Parnia well this do not mean they found a correlation. If i understand correctly, they say that the brain wave changes may be signs of ndes. they can be or they can’t. Even if, what next? We do not have any model right now how do you want to explain lucid experience when person is dying and it is not any brain trick or dying brain hallucinations stuff. I do not know what does he means by different dimensions of the reality, but if i understand that correctly, he says that we perceive something which is impossible to be seen when we are living. That is interesting. These brainwaves are no different to our brainwaves when we are focused on hard task i guess. So why do they occur during cardiac arrest, and why the brainwaves frequencies are so high(gamma waves, geez that is huge frequency, really active) when brain need oxygen and need to live as long as possible.
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I think people are reading too much into his responses here. It certainly doesn’t help that we know he takes a fence sitting position when reporting results to the broader scientific community, whereas he takes a more non-materialist stance in certain specific settings (bigelow contest etc). This ambiguity isn’t helped when you have article writers taking a materialist explanation when Parnia doesn’t necessarily. Frustrating. Hopefully we can get some clarity.
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Agree with you. Everything suggest that parnia is against materialism but he must be naturalist and materialist when it comes to academy.
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Finally read the Newsweek interview. Frankly Dr. Parnia’s messaging is very frustrating. On one hand he presents a study to an extremely reputable medical organization hinting at an accepted materialistic explanation for the phenomenon. Then when speaking to mass media for the general public, he discusses the “fascinating” and “bizarre” nature of the study, seemingly implicating that the results defy physiological explanation. Conscious activity, “meaningful” activity full of intentional and moralistic assessments of every lifetime memory is occurring when it should not be. That is amazing and cannot be hand waved away. But the report to the AHA tries to do that it seems. Frustrating and honestly off putting to the pint where I may just move on from this subject
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Wait charli, are you rfor materialistic or dualistic explanation?
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I am generally hopeful for a dualistic explanation but I am not ruling out a materialist component if that is where the evidence leads. I genuinely believe it will never be explained and may be something we are not meant to “know” in this life
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It is possible that we are not meant to know, I agree.
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i have the same thoughts like you, but i am masochistic pesymist so you know.
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Charlie, I understand your frustration, but we have to remember that Dr Parnia has two audiences, and that he must treat them differently. He is throwing meat at the sceptics with the EEG data, but the truth is that because the vast majority of data applies to people who were not interviewed, it is of no specific value to informing us on whether there is any association between conscious awareness and these random EEG spikes. theoretically it is plausible that NDEs are a result of these spikes and therefore he is absolutely right to state this, but he probably knows that in truth they are not.
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I have received a copy of the slides and am just creating a post. Check back here in about thirty minutes for my summary and thoughts.
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OK maybe an hour!
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No stress Ben haha
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