Top Five NDEs
The most compelling veridical NDEs
In the absence of a scientifically verified OBE, I am going to update my book with the latest results from AWARE II and supplement it with the most compelling HCP (healthcare professional) verified OBEs. This is my starter list, please please add ones you think are more compelling or more recent in the comments then I will create a poll – remember they must be HCP verified:
I want to include Maria and the Nike shoe (described by Kimberly Sharp in After the Light) but has this ever been verified in a documented manner by one of the attending HCPs? All the others have an MD or a senior nurse prepared to put their name to it.
AwareofAware 
Definitely good selections. One of my favorites is the Penny Sartori’s account in her study that had both veridical and unexplained healing.
Click to access vol25-no2-69.pdf
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Thanks Tony. That is good. Shame they didn’t get a hit with the symbol.
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And another one of my favorites is Al Sullivan
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Yep, that’s going in my book, and you’ve earned a thank you in the foreword 🙂 I know I should know all these, and I seem to remember something about this one before, but I just haven’t written them down, so being reminded is very helpful and what this is about.
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Wow thank you!
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Not really one case but did you think about the study of Michael Sabom where he asked survivors of CA with and without NDE/OBE to describe their resuscitation? The patients who reported an OBE described their resuscitation almost perfectly (including „weird“ things you wouldn‘t expect) while the patients without an NDE/OBE just imagined what their resuscitation probably was like and they made a whole lot of serious errors.
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That is a good study, but I am specifically looking for NDEs with HCPs prepared to put their name to the cases, go on the record and who were present at the time of the OBE and who pretty much always say “there was no way they could have seen that”. These are as close to the allusive scientific verified OBEs that you can get, especially AWARE I and Pim Van Lommel which took place in studies looking at this. Self reported, or third party interviews by psychologists or socialists are good, but from the perspective of countering skeptics, HCP, particularly MD accounts, are golden.
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Im very familiar with all of these ones/ndes. I was argue a person on Facebook. He was claimed that he studied NDES and there all hallucinations. He posted Keith Augustine argument about the Pam Reynolds case. There was no getting through to him. I do remain skeptical adter 30 years of researchering NDES. I also enjoyed watching the documentary After Death.
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In the book The Self Does Not Die there is a long list of OBEs categorized. In it there are those verified by medical staff. That’s a good reference.
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Thanks Tony. Will have to read again.
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Stephanie Arnold’s NDE was verified by MULTIPLE of her attending HCP’s.
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Thanks Michael. It’s just crazy that we think we need a “hit” from AWARE II. It will come one day, but really…so what?
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Mario Beauregards out of body I believe you are referring to.
https://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572(11)00575-2/fulltext
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The one from the cool study. The preliminary one. Sort of like psm Reynolds case
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Yep…let’s hope that Parnia’s COOL II, or AWARE III study comes up with the goods.
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Ben- The late Dr. Rudy’s account of his patient’s NDE is one of my most favorite. I think it may have had a transformative effect on him since he doesn’t come across as being all that religious. The Pam Reynold’s case a bit baffling to me, despite the robust and confirmed aspects of it involving very credible sources. In her account of her NDE, Reynolds has an exchange (presumably with her grandmother) in which she asks if God was the light. The response was, “God is not the light. The light is what happens when God breaths.” Does that not sound a bit anthropomorphic to you? Could her consciousness have been oscillating between the sublunary and a spiritual dimension during the NDE? I know in Scripture the word “breath” is used in various conjugations in reference to both God and Jesus. But I’ve never been a “scriptural literalist”, except in those instances where it feels appropriate. I’d love to hear your opinion.
An NDE account that I found quite moving and compelling is that of Karen Thomas. Are you familiar with her experience? Here’s the YouTube vid:
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Should say: “I know in Scripture the word ‘breathe’ is used in various conjugations…” And the word “breadth”, of course, is also used.
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Very moving, and challenging for Christians who adopt an exclusionary mindset.
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Ben- Don’t mean to press you on this if you are reticent to discussing it, but did you get a chance to read the ambivalence I expressed over the Pam Reynold’s NDE? While there are aspects of it that are very compelling, some details of the experience – specifically the part where she states “the light is what happens when God breaths” – that have me scratching my head. I’d like to know what you make of this. Thanks.
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Hi Thomas,
I am happy to discuss it, if I knew what there was to discuss. Many people who have NDEs come back with different interpretations and understandings of the things they experience. Whether this makes them less credible or not is the question. On the specific suggestion that Pam Reynold’s mother said the light is what God breathes, I make nothing of it. Like you said, there would have been a lot going on in her mind at the time.
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Dr. Tom Aufderheide had a patient that experienced an extraordinary NDE. And boy, what is ever verified by a physician! It starts around the 46 minute mark.
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I was going to suggest that one. Very good one. Dr. Auferheide has signed himself on the consensus paper from Parnia as well
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I can never remember his name. Yes, this is good. Remember seeing it when I watched the life stream and being blown away by it.
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AJ Ayer – a pretty famous atheist philosopher from a time when atheists actually had good arguments versus the atheists of today that just rely on lazy polemics https://www.philosopher.eu/others-writings/a-j-ayer-what-i-saw-when-i-was-dead/
Also, what do you think of Eben Alexander’s?
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I struggle a little with Eben Alexander’s for some reason, maybe because it was self reported. I read the book and enjoyed it.
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Orson, there’s an independent peer-reviewed published medical study of EA’s experience by Bruce Greyson and other’s.
Click to access Greyson_-Alexander-JNMD-2018.pdf
Key points are scoring 29 out of 32 on the NDE scale and a “birth sister” (who had sadly died 10 yrs. before) who he never met in real life (EA was adopted at birth and hadn’t met his birth family) but he recognised from a photo his other birth sister gave him as the girl who accompanied him in the NDE. I think that was the main veridical element of his EA. And what an experience!
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An incredible NDE. Thank you.
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“of his experience”
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AJ Ayer – a famous atheist philosopher from a time when atheists actually had good arguments and not just lazy polemics https://www.philosopher.eu/others-writings/a-j-ayer-what-i-saw-when-i-was-dead/
Also, what do you make of Eben Alexander’s?
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I really appreciate your approach to this, snf your conscientiousness
On a separate not, totally unrelated. I was listening to Joe Rogans podcast. It was an old interview with the author Sebastian Junger. Junger recounted a near death experience where he was on the brink of death. He saw his deceased father who was tried to comfort him and had also had a sensation of descending into a dark pit. He fought the “pit” as doctors fought to save his life. It’s a pretty interesting account. He had an aneurysm (not his brain) and was very aware that he was dying. He even recalled telling the doctor there was not much time. The interesting thing to me is that he was an atheist. His father was an atheist and Junger came out of the experience an atheist and he still does not believe in the afterlife. It was only positive in the sense that he came out of it valuing his life even more.
I think we have to be careful about how we look at these experiences and what they say about God and life after death. Verifiable accounts and a scientifically rigorous approach are the things that lend credibility to these stories. So again, thanks for this blog.
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https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/26/health/sebastian-junger-blood-donation-wellness/index.html
“It didn’t make me believe in God, but it did make me think maybe there is something more to existence, and to this universe, and this life, than the pure rationalists will allow. Maybe there’s something a little bit more that we just don’t understand, and it’s sort of waiting for us.”
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This is a great example of a negative NDE, and by a non-religious skeptic (it is interesting that some of the most negative ones that are famous are by people who held a strong atheist position…this is not universally so, but it is something I have noticed).
It is notable that although he recognised that what happened to him implies there is something beyond this existence, he still refutes the idea of a God. That doesn’t make sense. He talks about rationalism and how the experience is counter rational, but being rational is a matter of taking all data available to you and coming to a logical conclusion through a process of asking questions about that data. He comes from the assumption that rationalism can only conclude there is no afterlife or no God. That is not rationalism, that is materialism. It is without evidence, and if you take the science of the origin of life, the experience of many other NDErs, and the testimony of billions of people with faith (and a relationship with God) as evidence, then it is actually against the evidence.
I am not convinced he learned much from his NDE…something which is very important, and possibly the reason we have them. At the very least he should open his mind to the idea that not only was he previously wrong about the idea of life persisting beyond death, but that he may have been wrong about a whole load of other things, including the existence of God…something which is supported by many who have encounters with the supreme being of light (or God as some of us know this being to be).
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In my post I wanted to point out that, after all, Sebastian Junger did not reject the idea of an afterlife. I agree that people do not distinguish between rationalism and materialism. Their thinking is limited to the world around them. It is difficult for them to accept that reality can be quite different from the accepted paradigm. And all too astonishing. They do not see that miracles and metaphysics are the birth of a new human being, the workings of the human brain or even the workings of gears in an insect of the Issus coleoptratus species. They are used to it. In the past, people also found it hard to believe that the earth is spherical.
In Poland, a Catholic priest published two books on NDEs. The books contain detailed interviews with more than a dozen people. Some supported by medical documentation. And although sometimes the author interprets some things too much in terms of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, there is also an interview with an atheist. This atheist declares that he experienced an OBE at the moment of death. He saw his body. He saw what people in other rooms were doing and verified it after regaining consciousness. However, he still rejects belief in God, because…. he did not see Him and was not a court of law. He also claims that the length of existence of consciousness after the death of the body depends on the energy accumulated during life. And it does not have to be an eternal existence. Even if I do not agree with him, I think that the account of someone like this sounds extremely credible.
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That is really interesting. I love that account at the end about the atheist…he didn’t see God so doesn’t believe he exists, but before his experience he wouldn’t have believed in what happened to him. Some people really are impenetrably resistant to logic…has he not read all the other NDEs where people go that step further and meet God?
But yes, for me it really helps support the veracity of the experience overall. His interpretation is daft as a brush, but those of us with a wider field of vision really see it all and it helps.
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Actually could you provide me the reference to that. i find that really compelling. he really does not want to believe what happened to him, which it makes it all the more authentic.
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I remember watching that Joe Rogan podcast. Its true, science is the way
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What You See When Your Brain Gets Out of the Way with Prof. Bruce Greyson 12 Oct 2023. Just spotted, not listened. But the first one about the red car sounds amazing.
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Under “corroborating evidence” section of video he talks of Jan Holden’s work that has 92% accuracy people report, his own studies of 30 cases where the NDE’ers encounter people who they don’t know have died, then talks of the red car case as an example.
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I just watched that, quite astonishing . The case rings a bell, so probably heard it before. The Jan Holden paper is also interesting. Do you have a reference Probably IANDS.
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Yes! I found this peer-reviewed article by Jeffrey Long 2014
Near-Death Experiences Evidence for Their Reality
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/
He cites Holden re this 92% figure (“Of the case reports reviewed, 92% were considered to be completely accurate with no inaccuracy whatsoever when the OBE observations were later investigated”). Then go down to ref. 10
“Veridical perception in near-death experiences” which is her paper in the 2009 book The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences: Thirty Years of Investigation.
In the Greyson video there’s one section “Personal experiences, not scientific evidence, will convince people” which seems right up your street what you’re doing here!
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I folkow Dr. Bruce Greyson and the division of perceptual studies research. Also parapsychologist Loyd Auerbach is,vety knowledgeable as well. Check out his youtube channel at profparanormal. Or type Loyd Auerbach in thexsearch firld
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I still cant find anything about the documentary Rethinking Death. If anyone knows whete I can watch, please let me know. Thanks
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https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gwr9wz/an-inside-look-at-the-near-death-experience
Nothing new as such
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Thanks Z. Impressive getting a slot on the BBC website.
I have my thoughts on what Parnia says. What about you?
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I think it along the lines of the filter theiry.
Whst do you think Ben?
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I think he is making a mistake in the way that he presents this theory as though it is fact. It is extremely unscientific as they do not have any data linked to recollections of awareness. In my view the crash cart arrives too late to capture an NDE, I think the average was 5 minutes after CA. The brainwaves they are seeing may be a result of the CPR improving circulation momentarily and things firing up, but we do not know what is actually going on inside the brain as most of the patients with EEG data sadly died.
As a scientist I find the language he couches his hypothesis in disturbing. It does not reflect the evidence. He needs to emphasise much more clearly that this is one possible explanation for the EEG activity but that they have zero evidence to support this, instead of saying it as though it is established fact. The journalists just see the white coat and take it at face value. Doing my head in to be honest.
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But he has stated – as you have previously heard – that he believes the brain does not produce consciousness. Yet he has one foot in each camp that lessens the veracity of the other. What do you do with this cocktail of opposites? I don’t want to give the misleading impression that he (or anybody) should state only the things that I want to hear. Just take me to where the science takes you, preferably with clarity and in layman’s terms.
Perhaps my most searing criticism is aimed at the individuals conducting the interviews. To my knowledge, Parnia has never been pressed to explain whether these sporadic EGG spikes account for the NDEs. This error highlights the chasm between people who have genuine interest in this subject matter and individuals who are checking off questions on an index card until they have enough material to post.
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Personally I think his theory is way off the mark and has zero supporting evidence. I think the EEG spikes are more to do with CPR induced activity than anything else…not necessarily conscious activity, but the brain attempting to reboot as surges of oxygenated blood hit it. The way he talks is as though the brain is operating independently and accessing these memories and dimensions. At best it is an attempt to create a fudge that is acceptable to materialists, at worst it is an attempt to claim a great scientific discovery about consciousness, when the only discovery, albeit important, is that there is brain activity during CPR. I wish he would say that there are a number of possible explanations for the EEG data rather than insisting on one unsupported theory being the explanation.
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From my perspective he is presenting the hypothesis of consciousness in a filter theory as in aware 2 there was REDs but they did not capture any brain activity during this peroid. By extention if this is so it raises the hypothesis (as opposed to leading towards a proof) that consciousness is serperate and the brain acts as a filter. More a hypothesis by a process of elimination I suppose.
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Here’s a great and recent interview with Dr Pim van Lommel:
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Pam Reynolds is the most interesting because it cannot be fundamentally be disproven and I think it’s real. Pam has been confirmed to be in a state of temporary brain death at the time she had the experience.
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Pams OBE recollection (Midas Rex saw etc), come from the periods that Pam was under burst suppression, and not during the period she was connected to the heart lung machine, drained of blood and cooled.
It’s been generally accepted that Burst Suppression was a global cortex phenomena. However, recent studies seem to show that the visual cortex is completely isolated from burst suppression.
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I suppose we are looking at this from a very Sceptical perspective and been user scrutinising. Firstly, Parmia have declared there not just one category of things described as ndes but msny, REDs, with REDs having no link to brain activity from what the evidence they have gathered so far. If this is the case that REDs occur but with no associated brain activity one can only hypothesis that perhaps consciousness is independent and the brain is a filter. This in indicated as the perspective seeen from the instragram post back in September which raises the possibility that the brain modulates but not creates consciousness (like a radio set and radio waves). Parnia himself suggests he is in the camp of consciousness not been brain generated, but a thing in itself as heard in the New Zealand radio interview back in September too. In addition the aware 2 study found no link between REDs and brain activity. However, this paper as well as the framework paper of 2022, indicates brain activities could modulate other experiences that are not REDs. If anything as had been suggested even within the blog here, the brain activity could be that of consciousness getting emeshed with the brain. Parnia model of consciousness is his model based upon what he has seen in his field. He not a novel idea to suggest a model of consciousness amd there has been msny since from before Plato on wards. Even within this models their are variations. The model presented by Parnia is a model attempting to fit all experiences with the nde scale from REDs to CPR induced experince amongst others. I suspect that is why D Hoffman was invited along to a earlier discussion in order to put a similar framework to fit these experiences. If anything the model is brain filter theory meets dualism. Trying to create a model based in these experiences is not an easy thing to do.
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Just to add REDs not been found with associated brain activity is that of poppers falsification system regarding scince and if it deemed false that brain activity results in REDs,perhaps that of the brain filter theory is a plausible explanation.
Hopefully I clarified my understanding anyhow.
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Good points and I see their work anyway as part of a whole, like a buried elephant with only bits sticking out. And we can’t identify it. So there’s the reincarnation stuff, remote viewing, people seeing spirits and everything else (e.g. Cardena’s 2018 overview of Psi evidence – peer-reviewed). Skeptics can specifically focus on anything weak in all this but can’t dismiss the buried elephant.
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Any news about when Rethinking Death will be released. I still haven’t heard anything
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https://osf.io/preprints/psyarxiv/jm2dk
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That’s great, thank you.
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